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Post by James K. Polk on Jun 17, 2015 11:59:11 GMT -5
LAC trades DeAndre Jordan (70) $11,440,123
SAC trades Goran Dragic (72) $7,500,000 $7,500,000
Why, because Goran Dragic makes blood rush to my loins :-*
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Post by Frank Reynolds on Jun 17, 2015 12:01:13 GMT -5
Yeahhhhh
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 17, 2015 12:06:19 GMT -5
While I would love to give an accept to the first trade, why are either of you doing this? You will lack a center, LAC and have an abundance of guards, and Bill you already have Bogut.
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Post by James K. Polk on Jun 17, 2015 12:18:12 GMT -5
I can get a decent Center, I'm not passing up a chance for Goran Dragic
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 17, 2015 12:18:42 GMT -5
So why is SAC doing this?
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Post by Frank Reynolds on Jun 17, 2015 12:19:07 GMT -5
Yes but jordan is a good defensive player and i can always play one of them at PF
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 17, 2015 12:21:41 GMT -5
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 17, 2015 13:09:58 GMT -5
this trade literally makes both of your teams worse
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Post by James K. Polk on Jun 17, 2015 14:48:10 GMT -5
Its because he wont trade me Bogut, but I'll figure something out
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 17, 2015 14:48:48 GMT -5
Its because he wont trade me Bogut, but I'll figure something out Maybe wait until you get a few more players.
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jun 17, 2015 16:07:33 GMT -5
I reject. This is a dumb trade.
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Reggie Miller
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Reggie Miller on Jun 17, 2015 19:27:27 GMT -5
For now I'll reject this.. because I don't see a good reason for this to be approve yet.. LAC have a superstar PG why would they need Dragic and same goes for Sacramento..
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Post by Stan Van Gundy on Jun 17, 2015 22:18:20 GMT -5
I also reject for now.i am not against this trade but i dont see a good reason to accept this trade.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 17, 2015 22:22:00 GMT -5
3 Rejects, didn't get the 4 required accepts.
Trade Rejected.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 17:46:23 GMT -5
billy, Reggie Miller, Stan Van Gundy, Blake Bowman, I've got some questions for you regarding this vetoed trade, please? billy said:Do we need to reveal our thought process? How can we strategize if we're asked questions like this? Maybe the answer is: "I have a sweet deal riding on shedding this exact amount of cap space!" You're not exactly going to be able to reveal that, or else the other party has you by the a balls. billy also says: This trade literally frees up $7.5mil in cap space for an already troubled Kings team. Why are we forcing him to keep salary he doesn't want? It also doesn't hurt the Clippers cap situation in any way & allows them to gain the very valuable services of a combo guard in Dragic. Blake Bowman goes on to say: If the people involved in the trade are asked to reveal their reasoning shouldn't the TC be held to a similar standard? Reggie Miller mentions that: Is our priority to stop trades or facilitate the wishes of our fellow GM's? We don't have a crystal ball? So, what happens if D. Jordan pulls a Paul George this summer? "Sorry Clippers, we needed more of a reason to let this happen..." And, outside of that you may ask why either team needs a backup PG but, is that really enough of a reason to veto? Not to mention Dragic is listed as a G so, he can play either position. Stan Van Gundy: Again, if there isn't a good reason to block a trade then shouldn't we focusing on letting managers... well manage? On the whole, it's so early too. |We're not even halfway done the draft & we're confident enough to have mapped out each of these team's needs to start blocking their ability to build their roster as they see fit? This veto stuck the Kings with a cap hit of $7.5mil they might have loved to get rid of. It also stopped the Clippers from locking up a very valuable combo guard in Dragic. Overall, we should want to let managers manage their rosters as they see fit. It is their team after all. Granted, people will make mistakes. Some will win & some will lose. That's the just the nature of sport & it's impossible to stop. To finish, Frank Reynolds & James K. Polk are clearly not cheating or outside the rules in any way. As a league, we should let our managers manage & have this trade approved!
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Jun 20, 2015 17:59:48 GMT -5
While I think we should let this trade stand, as retroactive decisions lead to heaps of trouble, Danny Ainge brings up good points that I hope aren't ignored. Like Danny I tend to lean laissez-faire when it comes to managing trades in fantasy, though I understand that this league is unique and teaching/vetting GMs is important. I'm cool with that, at least until the GM list is reliably robust.
That said, I think the idea that we have to publicly reveal our intentions with every trade is very problematic. We shouldn't be forced to show our hand.
I also strongly agree with the point that committee members should give an argument for their vote, or else abstain. Alternatively I'd advocate blind voting, but I'd wait to few years to make sure that there are no oligarchic tendencies.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 20, 2015 18:04:31 GMT -5
While I think we should let this trade stand, as retroactive decisions lead to heaps of trouble, Danny Ainge brings up good points that I hope aren't ignored. Like Danny I tend to lean laissez-faire when it comes to managing trades in fantasy, though I understand that this league is unique and teaching/vetting GMs is important. I'm cool with that, at least until the GM list is reliably robust. That said, I think the idea that we have to publicly reveal our intentions with every trade is very problematic. We shouldn't be forced to show our hand. I also strongly agree with the point that committee members should give an argument for their vote, or else abstain. Alternatively I'd advocate blind voting, but I'd wait to few years to make sure that there are no oligarchic tendencies. A league like this is very hard to create and organize if the power gets shifted too much or some teams become very damaged it is beyond repair and bad for the health of the league. The trade committee is here to preserve the health of the league, long after many of the GMs will have gotten bored or become inactive and been replaced. We are a new committee and we will not always be right, either. I messaged the Kings later and mentioned to him that if he would have said he was trying to get cap space to resign Kawhi I'd probably have accepted it, but he didn't have his salaries posted so I didn't realize he was over the cap at the time.
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Post by James K. Polk on Jun 20, 2015 18:06:25 GMT -5
Yeah, this decline also led me to make a shittier trade
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Post by Frank Reynolds on Jun 20, 2015 18:06:47 GMT -5
why are we still talking about this rejected trade
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 20, 2015 18:09:06 GMT -5
You guys both need to think before you post trades.
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Jun 20, 2015 18:09:55 GMT -5
While I think we should let this trade stand, as retroactive decisions lead to heaps of trouble, Danny Ainge brings up good points that I hope aren't ignored. Like Danny I tend to lean laissez-faire when it comes to managing trades in fantasy, though I understand that this league is unique and teaching/vetting GMs is important. I'm cool with that, at least until the GM list is reliably robust. That said, I think the idea that we have to publicly reveal our intentions with every trade is very problematic. We shouldn't be forced to show our hand. I also strongly agree with the point that committee members should give an argument for their vote, or else abstain. Alternatively I'd advocate blind voting, but I'd wait to few years to make sure that there are no oligarchic tendencies. A league like this is very hard to create and organize if the power gets shifted too much or some teams become very damaged it is beyond repair and bad for the health of the league. The trade committee is here to preserve the health of the league, long after many of the GMs will have gotten bored or become inactive and been replaced. We are a new committee and we will not always be right, either. I messaged the Kings later and mentioned to him that if he would have said he was trying to get cap space to resign Kawhi I'd probably have accepted it, but he didn't have his salaries posted so I didn't realize he was over the cap at the time. I get that, and as I said I'm cool with that being the case while the GMs are largely unknowns. My, or rather Danny's, points about transparency still stand.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 20, 2015 18:11:54 GMT -5
A league like this is very hard to create and organize if the power gets shifted too much or some teams become very damaged it is beyond repair and bad for the health of the league. The trade committee is here to preserve the health of the league, long after many of the GMs will have gotten bored or become inactive and been replaced. We are a new committee and we will not always be right, either. I messaged the Kings later and mentioned to him that if he would have said he was trying to get cap space to resign Kawhi I'd probably have accepted it, but he didn't have his salaries posted so I didn't realize he was over the cap at the time. I get that, and as I said I'm cool with that being the case while the GMs are largely unknowns. My, or rather Danny's, points about transparency still stand. How have things not been 100% transparent? Reasons were given in most cases. I think these two teams should give some reasoning why they would be making a questionable trade, especially since they are both new and are brothers in real life. Their trades need to be vetted more carefully.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 18:22:11 GMT -5
why are we still talking about this rejected trade I was going to bat for you here Billy. There's no reason that a trade made 1/2 of the way through our draft should have been vetoed. Well, at least no good reasons seemed to be presented. Everyone seemed to deferred to their gut. They've stuck you with $7.5mil in extra cap space for next year & you can't do anything about it now.
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Jun 20, 2015 18:22:57 GMT -5
Did not know they were brothers. That's interesting, and I can see why there should be hesitation there w/r/t collusion. But my (our) point is that GMs shouldn't have to be 100% transparent, and trade committee members should be. A vote against a trade should be accompanied by an argument for why they voted that way, or else that voter should abstain. Just saying a trade is dumb without justifying that statement is an issue.
Furthermore, if voters present an argument, the GMs involved in the trade can respond to specific points. As is they have no recourse for reviving the trade. If I make a trade that I think to be rational and mutually beneficial, and a voter just says "Nah, that's dumb," how can I respond?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 20, 2015 18:25:14 GMT -5
Did not know they were brothers. That's interesting, and I can see why there should be hesitation there w/r/t collusion. But my (our) point is that GMs shouldn't have to be 100% transparent, and trade committee members should be. A vote against a trade should be accompanied by an argument for why they voted that way, or else that voter should abstain. Just saying a trade is dumb without justifying that statement is an issue. Furthermore, if voters present an argument, the GMs involved in the trade can respond to specific points. As is they have no recourse for reviving the trade. If I make a trade that I think to be rational and mutually beneficial, and a voter just says "Nah, that's dumb," how can I respond? I agree with this 100%.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 18:32:18 GMT -5
Reasons should be given in all cases. 100% transparency... This is exactly what I mean about the luck of sports & we'll always have winners & losers. Maybe Frank Reynolds didn't mean to clear cap space but, that would have been a result of the trade. He was denied this advantage, without any true reason cited.
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Reggie Miller
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Reggie Miller on Jun 20, 2015 18:37:02 GMT -5
Just like I said.. I reject this trade for now because were not yet finish in the fantasy draft so for now this will be rejected but after the draft they may bring this trade again so me and the other trade committee can futher review the situation..
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 20, 2015 18:38:32 GMT -5
Just like I said.. I reject this trade for now because were not yet finish in the fantasy draft so for now this will be rejected but after the draft they may bring this trade again so me and the other trade committee can futher review the situation.. Yes what he said. The trade looked dumb at the time but looks better now, propose it again later and if it makes more sense then it would probably pass.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 18:54:00 GMT -5
Just like I said.. I reject this trade for now because were not yet finish in the fantasy draft so for now this will be rejected but after the draft they may bring this trade again so me and the other trade committee can futher review the situation.. I still don't fully understand why though Reggie Miller? We don't know what people are thinking? We also shouldn't need to ask them to reveal their strategy either. As long as they're not cheating & it's inside the cap that's all that should really matter. We say now, just come back at the end of the draft when it makes more sense. By that time our cap hits & trade restrictions have already changed greatly. So, maybe the Clippers can't do the deal now because it'll put them over the top? Perhaps they can't salary match now? There needs to be a *good reason* presented to stop these trades up front or we may be doing more harm than good here. (eg. We've already seen the Kings stuck with salary they don't want & the Clippers *could* not be able to work the deal b/c of trade restrictions / their cap situation later on.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 18:56:31 GMT -5
And, if the Clippers won't do it now bc they don't want to help the Kings out cap wise?
How about trade restrictions, salary matching or if the Clippers couldn't handle the cap hit?
All hypotheticals but, they might have got screwed here over nothing really.
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