Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Dec 28, 2015 17:57:50 GMT -5
Current Rating: 72 That rating is too high. That marks him out as an all-star, and he's not in that conversation anymore. Here are the all-star votes for Eastern Conference guards: 1 Dwyane Wade (Mia) 300,595 2 Kyrie Irving (Cle) 138,191 3 Kyle Lowry (Tor) 128,131 4 Jimmy Butler (Chi) 111,220 5 John Wall (Was) 103,094 6 Derrick Rose (Chi) 72,709 7 DeMar DeRozan (Tor) 69,042 8 Jeremy Lin (Cha) 61,832 9 Isaiah Thomas (Bos) 45,014 10 Nicolas Batum (Cha) 20,596 Despite the obvious issues with fan voting, the fact that he can't even break into the top 10 really emphasizes that he's not all-star level. He's 29, so there's no reason to expect him to improve either. His TS% is 50.6%, lowest since his rookie season and below league average. Here are his unremarkable per game numbers: 31.9 MINs/11.5 PTs/3.4 REBs/5.3 ASTs/1.0 STLs/0.3 BLKs/2.4 TOVs/.717 FT%/.269 3P%/3.1 3PA/.442 FG%
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Dec 28, 2015 19:19:48 GMT -5
I think it's still too early to say with Dragic, maybe lower him a little bit but I think it's just not his year... this is a guy that is a year or so removed from being a top 5 point guard in the league. I think playing next to Dwayne wade is SOOO redundant.
I'm not really sure that Wade will come back this year... Dragic and Wade just play so similarly...
Also Miami's offense is completely the opposite of what Dragic is really good at, the Miami offense is slow as all hell, and Dragic is at his best when there is some transition scoring and a lot less of the half court stuff that Miami does 99% of the time.
That being said, he isn't the 72 that he was a few years ago, but I wouldn't drop him THAT far, I don't think he has suddenly gotten worse at basketball, I think he is a square peg in a round hole right now.
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
Posts: 4,110
Likes: 2,492
Total Bank: 76,000
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Post by Allan Houston on Dec 28, 2015 20:10:24 GMT -5
He had a great season in 2013-14, and garnered 3rd team All-NBA (so 4-5th best PG), and MIP. However, he was not an all-star. He was in the conversation, but I think a "borderline" classification is appropriate, for which a 72 is somewhat generous, though reasonable. Never in his career has he matched that production consistently. Just in small batches like the 2010 play-offs. And this season he's shown nothing of it.
I think 2013-14 should be considered with a grain of salt just like 2015-16 should. This season, I think we can expect his shooting stats to regress back to the mean, but otherwise his numbers don't seem too far off the career averages, with reasonable decreases due to aging.
Also, while I think it's great to point out the context in the argument, be aware that Dragic is signed on to be in Miami until 2020. There's no indication that Spo will leave or the organization will change its philosophy anytime soon, and everything I've seen indicates that the Heat plan on retaining Wade this summer to a cheaper contract. Dragic isn't going to be transported to a 7SOL Suns team. And when we want to rate the "True" value of Dragic, more recent history and context is more informative than past.
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Dec 28, 2015 21:03:00 GMT -5
i agree with alan here. Goran's greatest ability is his finishing. If you look at the advanced stats you will see that his finishing at the rim has been on a decline.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Dec 28, 2015 21:31:40 GMT -5
i agree with alan here. Goran's greatest ability is his finishing. If you look at the advanced stats you will see that his finishing at the rim has been on a decline. That's what happens when only 2 people on your team can shoot a 3
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
Posts: 4,110
Likes: 2,492
Total Bank: 76,000
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Post by Allan Houston on Dec 28, 2015 23:38:20 GMT -5
Is Gerald Green, Channing Frye, Marcus Morris and PJ Tucker in 2013-14 substantially better than Gerald Green, Chris Bosh, Luol Deng, and Tyler Johnson? Gerald Green = Gerald Green. Bosh shoots 37.2% on 4.2 attempts per game compared to Frye's 37.0% on 5.3. Johnson is shooting 45.7% on 1.8 attempts, compared to Tucker's 38.7% on 2.4. Due to regress but still. Deng (35.2% on 3.8) is worse than Morris (38.1 on 3.2). Suns also had 1 more shooter in Bledsoe, and the Heat don't have a comparable player.
Point is, he's not playing on a team devoid of shooters, even relative to his top year. And if he sees such a significant drop from losing essentially 1 shooter on the roster, slightly worse shooting talent, and a different offensive philosophy, an argument is just as easy to make that he was a product of the system in Phoenix as the one that the Heat lack the talent for him to thrive.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 31, 2015 19:52:05 GMT -5
I am pretty sure his skills did not decline by a bit. It is more about his team.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jan 23, 2016 11:43:08 GMT -5
Overall: 67
Physical Height: 30 Strength: 30 Speed: 95 Jumping: 77 Endurance: 80
Shooting Inside: 69 Dunks/Layups: 83 Free Throws: 50 Two Pointers: 68 Three Pointers: 64
Skill Blocks: 23 Steals: 58 Dribbling: 68 Passing: 84 Rebounding: 24
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