OKC-DET

[Steve Jobs]

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OKC Trades:

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(68) Reggie Jackson - $12,000,000 $13,000,000 $14,000,000 $15,000,000 $16,000,000
(63) Mason Plumlee - $1,415,520 $2,328,530 $3,371,711
(60) Steven Adams - $2,279,040 $3,140,517 $4,321,351
OKC 2019 1st

Salary Traded: $15,694,560
Salary Received: $14,728,844
Team Salary Before: $73,380,172
Team Salary After: $72,414,456

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DET Trades:

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(75) John Wall - $14,728,844 $15,756,438 $16,784,031 $17,811,625
DET 2016 1st

Salary Traded: $14,728,844
Salary Received: $15,694,560
Team Salary Before: $96,346,268
Team Salary After: $97,311,984

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I accept this trade.  I've been looking for another All-Star to pair with Draymond since the beginning of last season, and I think Wall is the best possible player for the job.  His passing and defense will provide a big upgrade and fit very well with the skills that Draymond provides.  

Obviously, it's a very stressful proposition to have to let go of Mason Plumlee and Steven Adams in this trade. Mason Plumlee has shown a very well-rounded big man skill set as part of this upstart Portland squad, and every time I watch Steven Adams play, I feel he easily has another level that he can reach that may have me regretting this trade in the coming years.  That hesitation over giving up Adams, and Stan's insistence that Adams be included, is why he included that late 1st on his end, which I can hopefully use to fill the hole Plumlee is vacating in my starting lineup.

I believe this trade will be very beneficial to both of our squads. Stan faces a very precarious offseason, and adding two promising young bigs on rookie deals will give him a more solid foundation to build on with his free agency moves.  My team seemed poised for mediocrity if my players didn't all take another leap in production, and this move gives me a core group that I feel confident can be built to contend.

Stan Van Gundy

Brown Cobb IV
Reggie Miller
Colin Loftin
Brian Scalabrine
billy

[Stan Van Gundy]

i accept..
while im planning to win a title again, i also plan for the futire of motor city..reggie jackson is real roster of detroit and i want to begin my new face of franchise just like the real detroit pistons.

[billy]

I had originally accepted this, but after seeing Detroit give up his draft pick as well, when his team is so badly in need of cheap youth I'm going to have to reject.

If this ends up getting rejected and it's reposted without that detroit pick I'd accept.

[Steve Jobs]

Bump...

[Reggie Miller]

I accept.. though I think Wall is the key for their championship last season and for this season so why would he trade him? but when I look at the next years ahead, he will not have enough good players so it is a hard sacrifice to make..

[Brown Cobb IV]

I reject. I love Reggie as a Detroit fan but he is no John wall nor will he be. John wall is superstar and Stefan Adams and plumblee don't make up for the value. The fact that Detroit is giving up a pick makes it even worse.

Reject

[Brown Cobb IV]

Also wall is on a bargain contract

[Steve Jobs]

Apr 3, 2016 9:44:41 GMT -5 Brown Cobb IV said:

I reject. I love Reggie as a Detroit fan but he is no John wall nor will he be. John wall is superstar and Stefan Adams and plumblee don't make up for the value. The fact that Detroit is giving up a pick makes it even worse.

Reject

Come on man, say what you want about that pick on his end, but even ignoring both picks, if you are really gonna claim Adams and Plumlee don't more than make up the value from Reggie to Wall, you're being wildly ignorant of their value.

[billy]

Apr 3, 2016 10:40:32 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

Apr 3, 2016 9:44:41 GMT -5 Brown Cobb IV said:

I reject. I love Reggie as a Detroit fan but he is no John wall nor will he be. John wall is superstar and Stefan Adams and plumblee don't make up for the value. The fact that Detroit is giving up a pick makes it even worse.

Reject

Come on man, say what you want about that pick on his end, but even ignoring both picks, if you are really gonna claim Adams and Plumlee don't more than make up the value from Reggie to Wall, you're being wildly ignorant of their value.

There's no way the trade would go through in real life. Adams + Plumlee are worth it because of the sim engine.

Do you really think anyone would trade Wall for Reggie jackson and those guys?

Plumlee went for like pick 25 last year, and Steven Adams isn't whoever you seem to think he is.

[Steve Jobs]

They're both starting centers on playoff teams. Top 16 players at their position don't mean anything anymore?

[Steve Jobs]

Apr 3, 2016 10:42:04 GMT -5 billy said:

Apr 3, 2016 10:40:32 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

Come on man, say what you want about that pick on his end, but even ignoring both picks, if you are really gonna claim Adams and Plumlee don't more than make up the value from Reggie to Wall, you're being wildly ignorant of their value.

There's no way the trade would go through in real life. Adams + Plumlee are worth it because of the sim engine.

Do you really think anyone would trade Wall for Reggie jackson and those guys?

Plumlee went for like pick 25 last year, and Steven Adams isn't whoever you seem to think he is.

There is no way any real life team would make this trade BECAUSE of all the players on my side. Reggie isn't perfect but he is a top 10-15 point guard. Throwing in two very solid (at worst), high potential young centers would make it not worth it. Take away the picks and judge the players in real life and no team in the league would rather be on my end.

[billy]

Apr 3, 2016 10:52:01 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

They're both starting centers on playoff teams. Top 16 players at their position don't mean anything anymore?

Sure, it means something. In this case it means the other centers on OKC and POR are complete trash.

[Steve Jobs]

Apr 3, 2016 10:57:20 GMT -5 billy said:

Apr 3, 2016 10:52:01 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

They're both starting centers on playoff teams. Top 16 players at their position don't mean anything anymore?

Sure, it means something. In this case it means the other centers on OKC and POR are complete trash.

Stupidest crap I've heard in a while here. Pay some attention to OKC. Adams and Kanter are brawling it out for minutes, both producing very well this season, and Adams is winning out that battle for starting minutes. He's great in the PnR, excellent defensively, and 22 years old. He'd be one of the best centers in the league on a team that wasn't so heavily dominated offensively by Westbrook/Durant.

[billy]

Apr 3, 2016 11:00:39 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

Apr 3, 2016 10:57:20 GMT -5 billy said:

Sure, it means something. In this case it means the other centers on OKC and POR are complete trash.

Stupidest crap I've heard in a while here. Pay some attention to OKC. Adams and Kanter are brawling it out for minutes, both producing very well this season, and Adams is winning out that battle for starting minutes. He's great in the PnR, excellent defensively, and 22 years old. He'd be one of the best centers in the league on a team that wasn't so heavily dominated offensively by Westbrook/Durant.

lol, he isn't even the best center on his team.

[billy]

I'm just saying, Plumlee got moved for a late 1st last year. Adams would be moved for something similar... if you think that's all you need to go from Reggie Jackson to John Wall I'm sure there are like 30 real life GMs that would disagree.

[Steve Jobs]

Apr 3, 2016 11:18:46 GMT -5 billy said:

I'm just saying, Plumlee got moved for a late 1st last year. Adams would be moved for something similar... if you think that's all you need to go from Reggie Jackson to John Wall I'm sure there are like 30 real life GMs that would disagree.

Plumlee got moved for a late first in real life because the Nets desperately needed picks, couldn't give him the minutes that he needed, and had absolutely no leverage in trade discussions. You know that as well as me, and trying to paint it like anything different is just disingenuous. Portland wouldn't dream of shipping him out for a late first and you know that's true. Give me a break.

And you still have no idea about Adams, I'm not even gonna bother debating you. You haven't paid enough attention to those two guys to appropriately evaluate them.

I obviously get that John Wall is a crazy valuable superstar, but Reggie Jackson is a very good point guard who is also on a very good contract, and Plumlee and Adams are both very talented centers. I added the pick on my end before he added the pick on his because I know what John Wall is worth (If you think he's worth more than 4 1st rounders then no one will literally ever be willing to trade for him), but I see the value in Steven Adams even if no one else does and I'm not willing to give him up as one of my four first rounders because he'll be more valuable than a simple trade piece if I hold on to him. Adams is in the trade because Stan wanted him bad enough to offer that first (which by the way, is most likely a bottom 5-10 pick).

I get it if you want to reject, just don't distort the value of what I'm offering here.

[billy]

Apr 3, 2016 11:37:28 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

Apr 3, 2016 11:18:46 GMT -5 billy said:

I'm just saying, Plumlee got moved for a late 1st last year. Adams would be moved for something similar... if you think that's all you need to go from Reggie Jackson to John Wall I'm sure there are like 30 real life GMs that would disagree.

Plumlee got moved for a late first in real life because the Nets desperately needed picks, couldn't give him the minutes that he needed, and had absolutely no leverage in trade discussions. You know that as well as me, and trying to paint it like anything different is just disingenuous. Portland wouldn't dream of shipping him out for a late first and you know that's true. Give me a break.

And you still have no idea about Adams, I'm not even gonna bother debating you. You haven't paid enough attention to those two guys to appropriately evaluate them.

I obviously get that John Wall is a crazy valuable superstar, but Reggie Jackson is a very good point guard who is also on a very good contract, and Plumlee and Adams are both very talented centers. I added the pick on my end before he added the pick on his because I know what John Wall is worth (If you think he's worth more than 4 1st rounders then no one will literally ever be willing to trade for him), but I see the value in Steven Adams even if no one else does and I'm not willing to give him up as one of my four first rounders because he'll be more valuable than a simple trade piece if I hold on to him. Adams is in the trade because Stan wanted him bad enough to offer that first (which by the way, is most likely a bottom 5-10 pick).

I get it if you want to reject, just don't distort the value of what I'm offering here.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Adams, but as a (formerly proud) owner of Plumlee across a few different leagues, I do regularly watch the Blazers too... I'm not gonna lie he isn't good. Sometimes he shows flashes but if he honestly is a top 16 center, than the center position is ridiculously thin.

edit:
Plumlee is 30th in PER at the C position.
30th in rebound rate.
32nd in usage.
49th in turnover rate.
5th! in assist rate.
34th in TS%.

[Brown Cobb IV]

Apr 3, 2016 12:00:27 GMT -5 billy said:

Apr 3, 2016 11:37:28 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

Plumlee got moved for a late first in real life because the Nets desperately needed picks, couldn't give him the minutes that he needed, and had absolutely no leverage in trade discussions. You know that as well as me, and trying to paint it like anything different is just disingenuous. Portland wouldn't dream of shipping him out for a late first and you know that's true. Give me a break.

And you still have no idea about Adams, I'm not even gonna bother debating you. You haven't paid enough attention to those two guys to appropriately evaluate them.

I obviously get that John Wall is a crazy valuable superstar, but Reggie Jackson is a very good point guard who is also on a very good contract, and Plumlee and Adams are both very talented centers. I added the pick on my end before he added the pick on his because I know what John Wall is worth (If you think he's worth more than 4 1st rounders then no one will literally ever be willing to trade for him), but I see the value in Steven Adams even if no one else does and I'm not willing to give him up as one of my four first rounders because he'll be more valuable than a simple trade piece if I hold on to him. Adams is in the trade because Stan wanted him bad enough to offer that first (which by the way, is most likely a bottom 5-10 pick).

I get it if you want to reject, just don't distort the value of what I'm offering here.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Adams, but as a (formerly proud) owner of Plumlee across a few different leagues, I do regularly watch the Blazers too... I'm not gonna lie he isn't good. Sometimes he shows flashes but if he honestly is a top 16 center, than the center position is ridiculously thin.

edit:
Plumlee is 30th in PER at the C position.
30th in rebound rate.
32nd in usage.
49th in turnover rate.
5th! in assist rate.
34th in TS%.

just checked adams and all of his are worse than plumblee except TS%

[Stan Van Gundy]

yes im the one, that insist steven adams will be include in trade because i like steven adams as player and be part of motor city..steve jibs hesitate to trade him but i offer my 1st round pick to come up this trade.

[Pete Maravich]

I like the trade for both sides.  I think Detroit is getting more than the Hornets got for CP3 in that trade to the Clips.  The Hornets had no leverage at that point but Wall is no CP3 as of yet.  Jackson & Eric Gordon are similar assets when they were traded but Gordon was 2 years younger.  Aminu was less established than Adams or Plumlee.  The Hornets got a lottery pick which was 10th I believe.  That pick would be on par for Adams or Plumlee.  Kaman was a non-asset in that trade IMO.  Also, Detroit will get to move 10-15 spots up in the draft.

[billy]

Apr 3, 2016 16:21:54 GMT -5 Pete Maravich said:

I like the trade for both sides.  I think Detroit is getting more than the Hornets got for CP3 in that trade to the Clips.  The Hornets had no leverage at that point but Wall is no CP3 as of yet.  Jackson & Eric Gordon are similar assets when they were traded but Gordon was 2 years younger.  Aminu was less established than Adams or Plumlee.  The Hornets got a lottery pick which was 10th I believe.  That pick would be on par for Adams or Plumlee.  Kaman was a non-asset in that trade IMO.  Also, Detroit will get to move 10-15 spots up in the draft.

The situation is completely different. CP3 was gone that offseason, in the books. John wall is signed for 4 years on an amazing contract.

[Pete Maravich]

If i recall correctly CP3 gave the Hornets a list of teams to deal with that he would re-sign to a max.  It wasn't a sure thing but it was insinuated that he would re-sign since the Hornets were dealing with the teams he provided.  The Hornets had to stay within those teams but they could use them against each other.  Wall has a really good contract but Detroit is also getting potentially 4 starters on contract for up to 4 years.  That is considerable.  I feel Adams & Plumlee are solid starters which is the main difference of opinion.

[Steve Jobs]

Colin Loftin
Brian Scalabrine

Hey guys, no rush but please cast a vote here if you get a chance.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Accept.

[Colin Loftin]

I have a few thoughts on this trade, discussion, etc. As far as Adams/Plumlee go, I'm somewhat with Steve on Adams. I think he's a decent young player. He's a decent defender and an ok offensive guy. He gets a lot of putbacks and easy dunks because of who he plays with, which have somewhat inflated his percentages. Still I like him and think he's a nice young guy. I think Plumlee is not. Not a huge fan of his offensive game at all. Just a pitiful shooter. As far as potential goes, I think Adams can improve some more if he can add some range. I think Plumlee is what he's going to be. I watched him for 4 years at Duke and he shoots just as poorly now as he did his freshman year.

I don't know that either of them are top 16 centers, and to state that they are just because their teams are in the playoffs is wrong. Boogie isn't in the playoffs, Lopez isn't in the playoffs, Towns isn't in the playoffs. There are a ton of really good players that won't be in the playoffs (likely including John Wall) so I don't think that being in the playoffs makes you a top 16 player at your position. Overall, not a big deal, and didn't affect my decision, but wanted to comment.

As for Reggie, I think I'm ok with him on the tail end of the top 15 PGs, but I wouldn't argue with you if you left him just outside that. I definitely don't think he's top 10. And he's nowhere near Wall. Just on pure talent, I think Wall probably belongs somewhere around the top 5. I'd put him in the 3-4 guys after Steph and Russ. Some order of CP3, Lowry, Lillard, and Wall.

Bringing the contract situation into consideration pushes Wall even farther out in front of Jackson. Jackson is on a decent contract; probably pretty close to his value. However, Wall's is a damn steal.

It's hard to predict where OKC's 2019 pick will fall, but knowing Steve and looking at his team, I'd guess it'll be somewhere in the 20's. So picks mostly aside, I don't think a league-average PG plus Adams and Plumlee is worth a John Wall who probably has one of the best 5 contracts in the league. I reject.

[billy]

Trade rejected.

Back to the drawing board.