billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Apr 15, 2016 17:17:36 GMT -5
New Orleans PelicansGF 74 Jimmy Butler $17,500,000 $19,250,000 $21,000,000 $22,750,000 $24,500,000SAC 2017 1st for Sacramento KingsGF 75 Kawhi Leonard $17,500,000 $19,250,000 $21,000,000 $22,750,000 $24,500,000 I accept. I trade a top 8 player for a top 4 player and a pick that allows Sacramento to tank and get a top 5 pick next year.
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Post by Frank Reynolds on Apr 15, 2016 17:24:28 GMT -5
Okie Dokie I accept
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Post by Colin Loftin on Apr 15, 2016 17:42:05 GMT -5
Dunno if Butler is a top 8 player
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Apr 15, 2016 19:02:21 GMT -5
Dunno if Butler is a top 8 player Curry RW Lebron Kawhi Durant Then the next 5 AD PG13 Butler Harden CP3
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Apr 15, 2016 19:05:24 GMT -5
i like this trade, i think the pick is also worth more since it is being returned to its original owner. Butler and Kawhi are both great players with leonard having the better year this year. But I believe that this deal is close in value. pass
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Post by Colin Loftin on Apr 15, 2016 19:19:36 GMT -5
Dunno if Butler is a top 8 player Curry RW Lebron Kawhi Durant Then the next 5 AD PG13 Butler Harden CP3 What about Cousins or Draymond? I think Butler is a very good player. I also think it's a stretch to say he's been a top 8 or even top 10 this year, that's a tough list to crack. He's 12th in OWS, outside the top 20 in DWS, 20th in Total WS, 19th in WS per 48. He's 15th in overall BPM, 14th in O-BPM, outside the top 20 in D-BPM, and 15th in VORP. I'm not rejecting it, I haven't made up my mind yet, just saying I'm not on board with Butler as a top 8 guy.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Apr 15, 2016 19:21:41 GMT -5
What about Cousins or Draymond? I think Butler is a very good player. I also think it's a stretch to say he's been a top 8 or even top 10 this year, that's a tough list to crack. He's 12th in OWS, outside the top 20 in DWS, 20th in Total WS, 19th in WS per 48. He's 15th in overall BPM, 14th in O-BPM, outside the top 20 in D-BPM, and 15th in VORP. I'm not rejecting it, I haven't made up my mind yet, just saying I'm not on board with Butler as a top 8 guy. Maybe if you only take into account this season, where the Bulls were trash with a college coach who hated Jimmy. Definitely respect your argument, though. Jimmy being a top 8 player is an opinion, that is mine. I'm sure Kawhi is ranked on a range from 2-6 by different people and Jimmy in the 6-12 range depending on whom you ask.
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Post by Colin Loftin on Apr 15, 2016 19:31:44 GMT -5
I'm not just taking this season into account. He had a really good season last year that should and is being considered. I'll be honest, I didn't watch a ton of the Bulls this year, so I can't comment too much on Hoiberg's in-game coaching. I've seen some of the issues he's had off the court as well, but those usually aren't totally one-sided, so I'd guess Butler isn't completely without blame.
Again, I think he's a great player, just not sure he's top 8.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Apr 16, 2016 8:01:26 GMT -5
I think Kawhi is top 5, while Butler is firmly top 15, probably top 12, potentially top 10. This leads to some philosophical questions: Is a top 15 player plus a possible lottery pick worth a top 5 player? Should a top 5 player ever be traded? Does the pick being Sacramento's to begin with add any extra value?
I say yes; no; maybe... respectively.
Ultimately, the decision here is not whether one side is winning, it is whether one side is threatening the future of their franchise with their decision making. Retrieving your own 1st round pick to make tanking viable while also getting another franchise player in return seems like the polar opposite of franchise ruining. I'll accept.
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Post by Justin Timberlake on Apr 16, 2016 10:03:39 GMT -5
One hell of a series of trades to get one of the best players in the NBA, Billy. I agree with BC and Jobs, Kawhi is the better player but getting your pick back and another 70+ guy is just fine. Accept
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Apr 16, 2016 10:30:43 GMT -5
I view this trade as something of a win win for us both. Jimmy butler is worth the same on my team as he is on Sacramento, and the same holds true for Kawhi. However, that first for me was gonna be 10-14ish, while now that Sacramento owns it the value of the pick can go WAY up.
So trades where teams are receiving their own pick aren't really zero sum games. We actually created net value for our teams (though we took some away from other tanking teams). That's how I look at the trade, anywayx
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