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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 13:01:18 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 13:01:18 GMT -5
Toronto sends:
Pick 49 NYK 2018 second Michael Beasley (2 years at 1.1 mil, TO year 2) Jerryd Bayless (1 year vet min) Omri Casspi (2 years at 2 mil and some change)
Milwaukee sends:
Georgios Papagiannis Ty Lawson
Sorry for not doing all the math but Mil sheds about ten mil and TOR still has a ton of room.
I accept. I wanted to offer Dirk a better deal than the last one he got since he seems intent on moving Papa. This is a good deal for him, all the guys I'm sending are above average players in real life and deserve a rating upgrade. Three very solid bench players/spot starters at 5 mil is amazing in this market. He can either hold onto them to fill out his roster or move them for some more picks.
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Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Jul 6, 2016 13:09:07 GMT -5
I accept this! The three players are valuable to the depth of my bench and can be used to attract players from the free agency.
Toronto will be getting $10 900 025M added salary Milwaukee will be getting $3 886 957M added salary
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Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Jul 6, 2016 13:10:19 GMT -5
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918
Likes: 2,107
Total Bank: 50,500
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 13:31:01 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 6, 2016 13:31:01 GMT -5
Reject. B-easy shouldn't be the best piece you get back when you're trading a brand new lottery pick.
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Jul 6, 2016 13:39:16 GMT -5
^especially when the pick is papagiannis
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 13:45:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 13:45:00 GMT -5
Man, Papagiannis is with the worst FO in the league, was picked way too high IRL, stuck behind 3 other centers, basically the perfect recipe to be washed out of the league in three years. And MIL is dumping Lawson here, and wants to contend.
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billy
Miami Heat
Posts: 7,174
Likes: 6,145
Total Bank: 3,050
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Post by billy on Jul 6, 2016 13:54:32 GMT -5
Still fail to see why he isnt just amnestying Lawson.
You can only amnesty contracts you inherited, you cant sign or trade for anyone and amnesty them. It's a get-out-of-jail free card.
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Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Jul 6, 2016 14:03:42 GMT -5
Im still trying to get something out of Lawson, Ill ditch him last minute if I cant trade him
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Post by Colin Loftin on Jul 6, 2016 14:31:11 GMT -5
Trading a lottery pick is too much for some meh depth pieces
Reject for me.
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Post by Colin Loftin on Jul 6, 2016 14:32:28 GMT -5
Im still trying to get something out of Lawson, Ill ditch him last minute if I cant trade him I don't think you're going to be able to get anything out of Lawson. I'm guessing he's pretty much universally viewed as a negative asset. You'd probably be better off to just amnesty him before free agency starts.
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 14:37:05 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 14:37:05 GMT -5
Technically that's only two rejects, this trade shouldn't be in the rejected sub yet.
Also, would any TC change their minds if I added NYK 2018 1st and/or a higher second rounder?
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billy
Miami Heat
Posts: 7,174
Likes: 6,145
Total Bank: 3,050
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Post by billy on Jul 6, 2016 14:44:28 GMT -5
Technically that's only two rejects, this trade shouldn't be in the rejected sub yet. Also, would any TC change their minds if I added NYK 2018 1st and/or a higher second rounder? Hmm I assumed BC ^ was reject
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918
Likes: 2,107
Total Bank: 50,500
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 6, 2016 14:58:02 GMT -5
Technically that's only two rejects, this trade shouldn't be in the rejected sub yet. Also, would any TC change their minds if I added NYK 2018 1st and/or a higher second rounder? Nope. It's different if amnesty didn't exist or he had other/better plans for the amnesty (doesn't seem so). Papagiannis may not be worth a lottery pick, but if he's going to trade him, the guy certainly shouldn't be traded on top of Lawson for cap relief in a deal that sends the bucks back any amount of salary. We haven't even seen this guy play at all yet and he's being added into an unnecessary salary dump trade as if he were a throw away late 1st or 2nd rounder? Just doesn't make sense.
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Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Jul 6, 2016 15:10:19 GMT -5
Technically that's only two rejects, this trade shouldn't be in the rejected sub yet. Also, would any TC change their minds if I added NYK 2018 1st and/or a higher second rounder? Nope. It's different if amnesty didn't exist or he had other/better plans for the amnesty (doesn't seem so). Papagiannis may not be worth a lottery pick, but if he's going to trade him, the guy certainly shouldn't be traded on top of Lawson for cap relief in a deal that sends the bucks back any amount of salary. We haven't even seen this guy play at all yet and he's being added into an unnecessary salary dump trade as if he were a throw away late 1st or 2nd rounder? Just doesn't make sense. I'm more interested with Casspi tbh. He will be really good for my bench. I dont want to for everyone to know this but Im planning a Calderon - Livingston - Ariza - Casspi - Biyombo for my bench. I plan to send Beasley anf Bayless to some other team with some of my players to get a better player in return for my starting line up.
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Post by John Stockton on Jul 6, 2016 15:17:29 GMT -5
I accept. I don't particularly care for papagiannis and he could easily end up no better than beasley rating wise
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 15:17:49 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 15:17:49 GMT -5
Not saying this trade should have necessarily passed (because he should amnesty Lawson) but the TC seriously undervalues good vets on small deals and it's kind of ridiculous. Winning teams desperately need guys like Casspi, Beasley, Bayless on the cheap. That's three excellent rotation guys for under five mil. All those guys are borderline starters, not just junk.
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 15:24:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 15:24:34 GMT -5
Teams like Seattle or Utah or Boston would be thrilled to get these guys at this price. And Papagiannis could be no one in four years. Or, maybe he breaks out and is really good, but that's not very likely where he's at. Between the overvaluing of young guys and the undervaluing of established players, GMs don't have the opportunity to "bet" on the success or failure of young guys and in my opinion that is a problem. If Papagiannis doesn't show improvement in the next few years and doesn't pan out, that means his value is highest now, and in my opinion MIL should have the opportunity to cash in on his potential.
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Post by DJ Jazzy Jeff on Jul 6, 2016 15:27:12 GMT -5
I dont want any of those guys lol
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Jul 6, 2016 15:31:29 GMT -5
my vote doesnt count since im alternate, gotta wait for pete or justin 1-2 rn
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 15:52:48 GMT -5
Bayless 15 - 16: 28.9 mpg, 10.4 pts, 3 asts, ~3 rebs, .9 stls, .43 from beyond the arc, and looks to be 76ers best PG next season
Beasley 15 - 16: 19 mpg, 12.8 pts, 4.9 rebs, not great but not total trash shooting and half a steal and block a game
Casspi 15 - 16: 27 mpg, 11.8 pts, 5.9 rebs, 40% beyond the arc
If you are contending these are definitely guys you want on your bench.
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Pete Maravich
Washington Wizards
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 772
Total Bank: 55,000
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Post by Pete Maravich on Jul 6, 2016 16:03:02 GMT -5
I don't really understand this trade. It is pretty junky and I don't understand why Lawson isn't being amenstied if he wants to drop the salary. Looking at the value, Papagiannis is the highest asset easily just looking at his slot. Lawson is a negative asset though & the return isn't sexy but it is enough for me to approve.
I accept
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
Posts: 4,110
Likes: 2,492
Total Bank: 76,000
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Post by Allan Houston on Jul 6, 2016 16:04:58 GMT -5
I usually try to stay out of these, but eh, I'm bored.
I could see an argument that Bayless is the best PG on the Sixers. I could also see him being the 4th best.
Beasley did well in his stint last season, but that was probably just variance.
Casspi I think is a piece.
That said, why not redo this trade, Papagiannis for those same assets, maybe my pick switched to my 1st, and he just amnesties Lawson. Most people's hangup just seems to be the inexplicability of moving rather than amnestying Lawson.
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 16:26:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Justin Timberlake on Jul 6, 2016 16:26:28 GMT -5
What are the ratings on the players involved? That should be included in the initial post.
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 16:28:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 16:28:52 GMT -5
Lawson 58, Papagiannis gets a rookie rating
Casspi 59 Bayless 58 Beasley 58
^all are above average players so should be in the 62+ range according to the latest ratings meta-analysis.
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 16:46:05 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Justin Timberlake on Jul 6, 2016 16:46:05 GMT -5
I disagree that they're above average. I'd say they're around average, maybe slightly above. A SW on them wouldn't result in much change I don't think. A rookie like Papa could yield a 60-65 player for more than a year.
Also, Milwaukee has a solid team as it sits right now with plenty of depth. If I were moving an interesting rookie, I'd be looking to make a bigger splash than this when my team is already primed for a successful season. He can take a risk on him being so cheap, having a full team and having the amensty option.
Reject
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TOR - MIL
Jul 6, 2016 16:51:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 16:51:54 GMT -5
A rookie like Papa could yield a 60-65 player for more than a year. This trade yields three of them. "Slightly above average" is 63.
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Post by Colin Loftin on Jul 6, 2016 16:58:49 GMT -5
General Voting Guideline
I did some analysis, fitting a normal distribution to my ideal ratings (which have a mean signed deviation of .01 from the actual ratings), and looking at the cumulative distribution for class cut-offs. Feel free to disregard this; my analysis is far from perfect. Player Class | Approximate Rating | Historically Great | 81+ | MVP (Top 1) | 79+ | All-NBA First Team (Top 5) | 75+ | All-NBA Second Team (Top 10) | 73+ | All-NBA (Top 15) | 72+ | All-Star (Top 24) | 70.5+ | Starter (Top 150) | 62.5+ | League Average | 59.6 | Second Unit (Top 300) | 56.67+ | Replacement Level (Top 405) | 54.15 |
Notes: 1) These represent an average NBA year. That is to say, for example, a player may not be an All-Star this year, but arguably would be in an average year. Hence, he deserves at least a 70. Similarly for other designations. 2) My analysis is constantly evolving. I reserve the right to alter these estimates in the future. 3) Replacement level means that if you, theoretically, replaced that player's production with that of the best non-NBA player, there would be no change in production. ^Is there a more recent one than this?
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 6, 2016 17:08:15 GMT -5
General Voting Guideline
I did some analysis, fitting a normal distribution to my ideal ratings (which have a mean signed deviation of .01 from the actual ratings), and looking at the cumulative distribution for class cut-offs. Feel free to disregard this; my analysis is far from perfect. Player Class | Approximate Rating | Historically Great | 81+ | MVP (Top 1) | 79+ | All-NBA First Team (Top 5) | 75+ | All-NBA Second Team (Top 10) | 73+ | All-NBA (Top 15) | 72+ | All-Star (Top 24) | 70.5+ | Starter (Top 150) | 62.5+ | League Average | 59.6 | Second Unit (Top 300) | 56.67+ | Replacement Level (Top 405) | 54.15 |
Notes: 1) These represent an average NBA year. That is to say, for example, a player may not be an All-Star this year, but arguably would be in an average year. Hence, he deserves at least a 70. Similarly for other designations. 2) My analysis is constantly evolving. I reserve the right to alter these estimates in the future. 3) Replacement level means that if you, theoretically, replaced that player's production with that of the best non-NBA player, there would be no change in production. ^Is there a more recent one than this? Sorry, poor wording. Looking back at Allan's posts a borderline starter is 62ish. That's how I got mixed up.
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Post by Colin Loftin on Jul 6, 2016 17:26:11 GMT -5
Oh gotcha. I just wasn't sure if it had been updated and I'd missed it somehow
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Post by Gregg Popovich on Jul 6, 2016 18:36:01 GMT -5
This is legit the best dynasty I ever been in (although it is my first)
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