billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Dec 31, 2016 0:52:33 GMT -5
New Orleans PelicansC 63 Cody Zeller $5,318,313 $7,014,855 SG 55 Tyler Johnson $10,000,000 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 10,000,000 $10,000,000 CHI 2017 1st DAL 2017 1st Minnesota TimberwolvesC 75 DeMarcus Cousins $15,756,438 $16,784,031 See @docrivers101 this is how much you're supposed to get for a superstar.
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Post by Milt Newton on Dec 31, 2016 1:01:28 GMT -5
I accept. I reckon a rising Zeller, Johnson, and two future picks in a loaded draft are a good trade for DMC.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Dec 31, 2016 1:03:27 GMT -5
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Post by kong on Dec 31, 2016 1:11:37 GMT -5
See @docrivers101 this is how much you're supposed to get for a superstar. TC should decide that though. :P
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 31, 2016 1:58:41 GMT -5
Oh shit, I gotta be real, I really wanna see this trade go through.
Boogie, AD, Bradley, Holiday, Parker, DeMarre Carrol, JR Smith, Powell, RHJ and co would be a serious contender today and for the foreseeable future. And two lottery picks in this draft is a huge deal to add to Marcus Smart, Winslow, Otto Porter and Poetl.
Wish I was back on the TC to approve this one, good job guys.
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Post by Justin Timberlake on Dec 31, 2016 11:20:11 GMT -5
Can I say I called it lol? Happened a lot quicker than I expected, though.
At first I wasn't sure how much more this was than the previous Lillard trade. Until I realized the DAL 1st and LAC 1st are about a wash, the CHI pick is likely to be way better than the CLE 1st if the trade had gone through, there's no gigantic Chandler contract for anyone, and while Hood might have the higher ceiling I don't think him and Zeller are too far off rn, and Johnson is in as well.
I may have wanted a promising rookie-contract prospect instead of 2 picks, but if Milt is confident in this class and his drafting ability, then all the power to him.
Billy is intentionally trying to make my predictions look bad now.. Accept
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Post by Gregg Popovich on Dec 31, 2016 11:58:28 GMT -5
Billy couldn't get someone so he just went for the best center in the league damn
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Pete Maravich
Washington Wizards
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Post by Pete Maravich on Dec 31, 2016 15:09:12 GMT -5
This is acceptable to me but might not be as clear cut as first glance. I've said before that trading a superstar without receiving a superstar in return rarely returns a profit and this is no exception. The picks both have good value. Zeller & Johnson are both exceeding my expectations this year but I believe both are hitting their ceiling. Cousins is at a discounted rate over the next two years compared to the Lillard deal & he could potentially be under control for a total of 8 years if the Bird Rights are included. The return is better but I believe Cousins salary situation holds more value even though if re-signing him is a 50/50 shot.
Accept....closer than the experts think
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Dec 31, 2016 20:00:04 GMT -5
I won't even be mad if this gets rejected guys. It's one of those trades where I feel like I'm both winning and losing... those picks :(
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Post by Keith Van Horn on Dec 31, 2016 21:52:16 GMT -5
Really gotta feel like my package of Hood, Adams, and my first this year at least warranted a response if you were going to accept this. I would have gladly provided more. I think Hood and Adams are better than Zeller and Johnson.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Dec 31, 2016 22:10:18 GMT -5
Really gotta feel like my package of Hood, Adams, and my first this year at least warranted a response if you were going to accept this. I would have gladly provided more. I think Hood and Adams are better than Zeller and Johnson. Zeller and Johnson are here to match the salary. Clearly the most valuable pieces are the two top 6 picks in a draft that is considered to have 5-6 all stars and 2-3 potential superstars... Your pick meanwhile is gonna be about 20. It's not even close.
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Post by Keith Van Horn on Dec 31, 2016 22:15:54 GMT -5
I'm aware of that. Which is why I said that I felt like it at least warranted a response. I have other assets at my disposal besides those 3 things.
Those picks are still just picks. you don't know what those picks will be, or what those players will turn into. We at least have an idea of who Randle, Adams, Hood, and Elf are. Most people prefer known potential certainty over the blind potential of a pick.
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Post by kong on Dec 31, 2016 22:23:47 GMT -5
Cousins is at a discounted rate over the next two years compared to the Lillard deal & he could potentially be under control for a total of 8 years if the Bird Rights are included. The return is better but I believe Cousins salary situation holds more value even though if re-signing him is a 50/50 shot. Not sure about that. I seriously doubt Twolves could re-sign Cousins. On the other hand, Doc has Lillard locked down for 5 seasons.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jan 1, 2017 9:39:16 GMT -5
I'm going to reject actually. I don't think the Pelicans offerings are so far away from what I'd consider acceptable for Cousins, but this is largely the same issue as the Clippers deal. We have a team here that is in much better shape than the Clippers but still a very probable candidate for losing a superstar at the end of his contract and not recovering any time soon. Milt could respond by trying to provide Boogie more support or he could just trade Boogie, but either way his trade needs to be as discerning about getting appropriate value, and as much value, as possible.
In this instance: if this was the off-season and either of those picks were settled into certain spots in the top 10, and Zeller/Johnson had continued to play at this level (which may very well be both of their respective ceilings), this exact package might be closer to enough. As it stands, both picks could end up worse than they are now (the teams could make some trades) or they could fall in the lottery and heavily lose value compared to where they currently seem likely to end up. If the picks devalue and the TWolves miss their chance to draft a true stud, then there is NO argument that can be made that keeping Boogie wasn't the better option here.
Furthermore, again in a similar way to my reject on the Clippers trade - it's not always about what they DID get, it's often about what they could have gotten. I know Milt has been busy, but if I didn't even realize he was back, or that Boogie was being shopped, I'd venture to say that he did not approach trading his superstar with the patience that I believe a deal like this requires. Could he have gotten more out of Billy? Absolutely yes... Billy didn't even trade a single starter on his team to make this deal happen. Do I think there are other teams or GMs out there that would have gladly offered this much or more for Boogie and probably didn't get a chance? Yeah I do.
So again, to clarify, I'm not rejecting because I think the deal is good enough but I don't think Milt was patient enough... I'm rejecting because I DON'T think the deal is quite good enough and I think with patience Milt can find better or demand more out of the Pelicans.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jan 3, 2017 0:42:14 GMT -5
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Post by John Stockton on Jan 3, 2017 9:44:40 GMT -5
sorry I've been torn about this but Steve is right. milt has one super star and he's trading it for uncertainties. maybe later in the yr when those picks are more sure to be in the top 5, I could accept but at this time I'm gonna have to say no.
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billy
Miami Heat
Posts: 7,174
Likes: 6,145
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Post by billy on Jan 3, 2017 12:21:22 GMT -5
Actually now that I think of it Colin Loftin is the last TC member not BC
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 23:03:46 GMT -5
The swing vote!
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Post by Colin Loftin on Jan 4, 2017 14:11:21 GMT -5
I've gone back and forth on this, but as much as I like this draft class, those picks aren't a guarantee to be in the top 5 or possibly even top 10 and I think trading the best C in the league (depending on where you put AD) for two middle to high lottery picks, even in a deep class, doesn't seem like enough to me. I like Johnson and Zeller decently, but not enough to swing it.
It's close, but reject for me.
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billy
Miami Heat
Posts: 7,174
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Post by billy on Jan 4, 2017 14:52:33 GMT -5
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Post by kong on Jan 4, 2017 14:54:20 GMT -5
Yeah, was about to say Billy didn't even want this trade to pass. He loves drafting.
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