SAC - TOR

[Sam Hinkie]

TOR Trade

Chris Bosh $23,741,060 $25,289,390 $26,837,720

Jabari Parker $5,374,320 $6,782,392 RFA


Before:
$97,277,322

After: $98,171,942

for



SAC Trade

George Hill $8,000,000

Taj Gibson $8,950,000

Deron Williams $7,920,000 $8,500,000 8,750,000

Amir Johnson $5,500,000 $6,000,000 $6,500,000

Boston's 2018 1st

Before: $88,690,271

After: $87,795,651



I accept, I'm getting a young star in Jabari which will help me in the rebuilding process. I'm only giving up veterans who I won't keep any longer than this season, which will help me attribute to the youth movement. Even though I'm getting Bosh's enormous contract, I don't have a problem with it since I wont be contending anytime soon and can use him as a major trade piece for contending teams if he does decide to come back.

[Brian Scalabrine]

I accept. Between my cap situation and having no players on the roster yet besides Jabari who have the floor of a star, it wouldn't make sense to have to resign Jabari next year. Here I get to leverage my best player to get out from under Bosh's contract, gain a future pick, and 3 guys who I can hopefully turnaround to contenders for draft considerations. If not, George Hill is 100% worth resigning, as is Taj. Overall, I think I get more fluid assets that have a place in the NBA.

If trade passes, I'll waive and stretch Meyers Leonard and Jordan McRae.

[Steve Jobs]

Personally, I think this is absurd considering what you traded to get Jabari...

[John Stockton]

what teh fux

[Sam Hinkie]

I would like to mention that the roster page is a few trades behind so this would be the salary situation before the "SAC - OKC" trade.

[billy]

Apr 16, 2017 22:08:03 GMT -5 Brian Scalabrine said:

I accept. Between my cap situation and having no players on the roster yet besides Jabari who have the floor of a star, it wouldn't make sense to have to resign Jabari next year. Here I get to leverage my best player to get out from under Bosh's contract, gain a future pick, and 3 guys who I can hopefully turnaround to contenders for draft considerations. If not, George Hill is 100% worth resigning, as is Taj. Overall, I think I get more fluid assets that have a place in the NBA.

If trade passes, I'll waive and stretch Meyers Leonard and Jordan McRae.

So let me get this right, you trade away all the talent on your team for late 1sts and 2nds to "tank".

Now, youre trading the player you basically gave up your entire season for, for a bunch of expiring veterans that you can hopefully trade in the next two weeks. Half of the veterans you are trading for aren't even expiring, ruining your chances to tank next year. But your team isn't even able to sniff the idea of competing.

If you're gonna rebuild you need patience, I don't want to lecture you on how to run your team, but I really don't think offloading Jabari for a pick that will probably be like 25 and a bunch of veterans is how to rebuild.

You don't have to get rid of Chris Boshs salary, his salary on the books doesn't hurt you at all. When he retires it disappears. You're tanking. Or you were, now your team is in complete limbo with no direction or player worth anything more than a late 1st.

This trade that Sacramento is making is the type of trade you need to be making. Not the other way around. If this trade is in a vacuum without the Standings page the value isn't even that bad, but I would think your team was a 5th seed right now, not the worst team in the league.

[Sam Hinkie]

I also think people need to consider that this is Jabari's second knee reconstruction in the same knee. Derrick Rose anyone?

[Paul Pierce]

reject, just based on the fact he gave up alot for Jabari. Plus that 1st wont be that good

[Steve Jobs]

Realistically, his Jabari trade was giving a top 3 pick and getting back a top 8-10 pick plus Jabari, so I'm not 100% sold that I feel this is a "reject"... that pick makes up the majority of the value lost by giving up on Jabari immediately... but I do feel this is both inconsistent and partially questionable only because Jabari could easily be traded directly for more picks/prospects, rather than for contender pieces to be leveraged for picks/prospects. I don't know. I hate the trade for Toronto but I'm not set on rejecting yet.

[Yao Ming]

I think there's a good chance Taj Gibson and George Hill's value will plummet after this trade. Teams know that Toronto isn't contending this year despite that win over Seattle, so their market would be mostly contenders who can afford to take on their $8m salaries (not too many teams fit that criteria). I just don't see any GM in Scalabrine's position being able to unload those two if this trade goes through.

Essentially, I see it as Chris Bosh & Jabari Parker for Deron Williams, Amir Johnson, and a 2018 1st. For that to be worth it for Scalabrine, Toronto would need to be a contender next year or the year after before Deron and Amir become less valuable than their salaries. It is possible that Jabari Parker isn't the same player once he's healthy again, but I think his upside can commend more assets.

I think the trade is fair, but a very risky move for Toronto that will likely end up setting them back a year or two. Even if Gibson/Hill brings back some assets, I don't see Toronto being ready to contend before Deron Williams and Amir Johnson go into a steep decline. They'd need their 1st round draft pick this year and next year to pan out very quickly, as well as current rookies Brogdon, Thon Maker, and Levert.

All in all, I'm going to choose to accept this trade. I think the return is fair for Jabari Parker whose injury has caused differing opinions to emerge. Even though I think Toronto is getting the short end of the stick, I do not find this trade to be franchise ruining. Jabari Parker still becomes a free agent after the 2018 season, and may not resign with Toronto anyways. Worst comes to worst, Scalabrine does poorly next three years and gets high draft picks.

[billy]

Apr 17, 2017 15:50:39 GMT -5 Yao Ming said:

Jabari Parker still becomes a free agent after the 2018 season, and may not resign with Toronto anyways. Worst comes to worst, Scalabrine does poorly next three years and gets high draft picks.

Jabari would be a restricted free agent, Toronto could keep him if they wanted no matter what.

[Yao Ming]

Apr 17, 2017 16:15:24 GMT -5 billy said:

Apr 17, 2017 15:50:39 GMT -5 Yao Ming said:

Jabari Parker still becomes a free agent after the 2018 season, and may not resign with Toronto anyways. Worst comes to worst, Scalabrine does poorly next three years and gets high draft picks.

Jabari would be a restricted free agent, Toronto could keep him if they wanted no matter what.

Isn't Jabari's qualifying offer for the 2018-19 season? Sorry if I phrased it poorly or am reading something wrong, but I still stand by my point. Parker is only 1 player and is not bound to Toronto past the next 2-3 seasons, so I don't think losing him would ruin the Raptors franchise

[billy]

Apr 17, 2017 17:34:39 GMT -5 Yao Ming said:

Apr 17, 2017 16:15:24 GMT -5 billy said:

Jabari would be a restricted free agent, Toronto could keep him if they wanted no matter what.

Isn't Jabari's qualifying offer for the 2018-19 season? Sorry if I phrased it poorly or am reading something wrong, but I still stand by my point. Parker is only 1 player and is not bound to Toronto past the next 2-3 seasons, so I don't think losing him would ruin the Raptors franchise

I guess the disconnect is I consider an RFA to be "bound" to a franchise.

[Sam Hinkie]

Apr 17, 2017 13:39:10 GMT -5 Paul Pierce said:

reject, just based on the fact he gave up alot for Jabari. Plus that 1st wont be that good

I actually don't think he gave up alot for Jabari. If you think about it this way, he really only "potentially" moved down 5-8 spots after trading for Jabari. He definitely could get an even better return with the pieces I've traded to him. Also that chicago pick he owns could end up being better than the toronto pick he traded away if he wins more games, which I think he will.

Yes there is some risk, but this trade sets Brian Scalabrine up to make some moves in the future, which will ultimately be better for the franchise moving forward.

   

[billy]

I'm really on the fence whether to accept this or not, mostly because I think it looks bad for me to accept it since my Dallas pick and the Toronto pick is neck and neck, and this would basically seal the deal.

I do think the value is even, but I don't think this is the right move for Toronto in keeping with their plan to rebuild. It's always a messy situation to decide how much context needs to matter when deciding trades, but it 100% does matter at least some. I'll let other people vote on this one.

[Sam Hinkie]

can we get some more votes on this please? We've currently got 1 accept and 1 reject.

[Deleted]

Ill accept this trade. I think its provides something for both teams without one team gaining much more then the other. Sacramento receives Parker who could be a great player for many years but has had injury issues thus far in his career. They also receives Bosh's bad contract but if they dont plan on contending anytime soon then its worth taking on his contract to get Parker. Toronto does not recieve much value besides some expiring deals, veteran role players and a 1st. I do understand what they are doing by removing significant salary and trading a player that has some major question marks while still getting some assets back works well for them. Its a tough trade to judge butI think each team gains something from this deal which makes it an accept from me.

[Brown Cobb IV]

Reject, this puts toronto in no man land. If you want to move jabari move him for prospects or picks. Or at least for guys who are not about to hit their decline

[Theodore Duncan]

This is a tough one. First I wanted to reject, but Yao made a great comment that changed my mind. I think this is not a smart trade for Toronto, but there is enough value.

Accept

[Ben Wallace]

From what I understand, the criteria to reject a trade is obvious collusion or if it threatens the viability of a franchise. Having said that, this is certainly an odd trade. That's not what I would have expected to see in a trade involving Jabari Parker, but I don't want to delve too much into what each GM "should" be doing, and I can see the apprehension once could have surrounding Jabari's injury status. There are real questions surrounding that ACL.

Accept. The two agreed on the trade and there are benefits to both sides.

[Allan Houston]

This one's tough. The question is whether Toronto is heading towards being unviable. I think what they sold for Parker in the past is sunk cost, so I don't care that much about it.

So how do they improve from the dire straits they're in with this trade? They get off that Bosh contract. If he retires, then this is definitely a mistake. If not, they replace his contract with 17M in expirings. That cap space could be valuable, but with the rest of their roster, they're not going to be attracting FAs. So they could use it to take on another bad contract along with draft or youth assets. But that brings up the next point.

They have too many assets. They'll have 14 guys likely under contract next season. They have two dudes with draft rights who could come over (anyone hear anything about Cornelie or Zagorac?). They have the Bulls 1st and five 2nds. That's potentially 22 players for 15 spots. And if they want to use that cap space in FA or to take on bad contracts, that's 23+. So they have to do something. But this trade goes in the wrong direction. They need to consolidate assets, not expand. Otherwise, they end up creating more dead money. And that's what I really don't like about this.

The fact that they'll be paying almost $9M to Leonard and McRae for the next 9 years is bad, and they already have a lot of dead money on the books. What's the hope here? Before, it was that Parker would become an all-star, a few more rookie salary guys and picks like Maker and Levert hit. There's your core and you could start to think about contending. After this trade, obviously Deron and Amir aren't part of the plan. So you get one more draft bullet, and probably not a good one. So you need Maker or someone else to really hit, otherwise what's your path to an all-star? And you need to hit on a bunch more draft picks, which is unlikely. You try to turn other guys into more draft picks, but as mentioned you already have too many assets for 15 roster slots. So all this while you're generating more and more dead money as you cut the guys at the bottom of the barrel. That's a bad treadmill to get on.

I'm going to reject. You just need to rely on Bosh retiring, which seems not unlikely. Then you get the desired cap space and more. You keep Jabari as you potential all-star, and otherwise you can act exactly the same as you would after this trade, just firing draft bullets until enough hit, except you have one fewer. And ideally, you consolidate those bullets and rookie contracts in better ones. 

[Sam Hinkie]

So that's 4 accepts and 3 rejects.

[John Stockton]

this is a ridiculous trade and the fact that this is getting accepts makes me wonder if we would be better off if we go back to trade committee format. not even close for me. reject.

[Julius Erving]

Reject, Sacramento gets Chris Bosh who cant even play and Jabari Parker is being given away for practically nothing to them  while Toronto gets "assets" that will only help them get better which I dont think is the direction they should be tanking and I really dont think that Bostons pick will be extravagant.  If this was 2013, I might accept this trade but Bosh, D-Will and Hill aren't who they once were.Maybe I don't fully understand what's going on in the heads of Brian and Sam but this looks like a shit trade to me. (No offense to anybody of course this is just my opinion).