Toronto Raptors - LA Clippers

[Gregg Popovich]

Raptors receive
G 59 Austin Rivers $1,500,000 $1,500,000
2017 29th Pick

LAC receive
2017 32nd Pick
GF 46 Jake Layman $969,190 $1,010,990 $1,824,837

The Los Angeles Clippers believe that, if given the same amount of time, Mr. Layman can do better than Austin Rivers. 
We believe in the potential and wish Mr. Rivers luck in his next endeavor.

Brian Scalabrine

[Brian Scalabrine]

I like Layman a lot, but:

Gotta sift through some of my old second rounders to make room for new rookies, and no one has brought in trade interest

I get to move up, and get some insurance that I'll get a fringe first guy that I want

At this point I'm the most worried about having guards who impact the game, Rivers has shown flashes, averaged 12 points a game this season, and is on a nice little contract

CP3 MIGHT leave LA, which would give Rivers great opportunity on his dad's team

Rivers is a surer bet than Layman, and could easily be a part of a trade to a contender later on

[Brian Scalabrine]

So I accept

[Julius Erving]

In my opinion, Toronto receives the better pick and the better player but Layman could be good and 32 isn't far off from 29. This trade isn't lopsided enough for me to reject so I accept.

[Paul Pierce]

I think kwame wanted a 2nd instead of a 1st so accept

[Logan Hough]

Layman might not be worth this but if Sejong is targeting someone I bet trading down a few picks won't matter. This move won't tank a team though so accept.

[Allan Houston]

Bad trade but I accept. Won't ruin a franchise.

[John Stockton]

Accept cuz irrelevant

[Steve Jobs]

Gregg Popovich - Just wanna check... You know the Clips probably hand Rivers the starting job if CP3 leaves, right? Cause that makes this trade rejectable to me if that wasn't part of your thinking.

[Gregg Popovich]

Jun 27, 2017 11:08:47 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

Gregg Popovich - Just wanna check... You know the Clips probably hand Rivers the starting job if CP3 leaves, right? Cause that makes this trade rejectable to me if that wasn't part of your thinking.

I am fully aware of the irl Clippers situation.

[Gregg Popovich]

Jun 27, 2017 11:08:47 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

Gregg Popovich - Just wanna check... You know the Clips probably hand Rivers the starting job if CP3 leaves, right? Cause that makes this trade rejectable to me if that wasn't part of your thinking.

Im also not planning on contending, fully devoted to rebuilding. (Made that clear from day 1 when I said I am willing to give away my top players for cheap.)
So I don't care if Austin rivers is going to be a starter in the garbage Clippers team.

Honestly speaking Layman has a legit chance to be a develop into a usable role player in the Trailblazers which is why I picked him up.

[Steve Jobs]

Layman could be a usable role player, but Austin Rivers has a chance to actually be a starter as soon as the very next Clippers basketball game is played. Trading Rivers+29 for Layman+32 implies that you think Layman has more value as of right this second.

Committing to tanking doesn't mean you trade your players away for cheap, it means you find the best possible deals for your players that you can to maximize value while minimizing talent so that your picks are worth enough to be either 1) useful for picking top players in the draft, or 2) useful for trading for good talent. I find it 100% impossible to believe that you can get the best deal for Rivers right now during the draft when waiting a couple weeks for Free Agency could mean you've got several contenders interested in him because of his potential to dramatically increase his production. If Paul ends up staying and Rivers doesn't have starter-level value, you could probably easily trade him straight up for Layman (or whatever) before the season starts and be no worse off.

I reject. This trade just doesn't make sense to me. Rivers is 24, has 4-5 dudes in front of him on your roster that are more likely to hold you back from tanking, and has a cheap expiring contract that should be phenomenally easy to deal. Getting the less-valuable player and the less-valuable pick involved in the deal doesn't mean you're making the right trade just because you're trying to commit tanking.

[Gregg Popovich]

Yes, you are completely correct that Rivers is most likely the starter and he is worth a lot more than Layman. You are right when you say I should wait until Rivers blows up and gets his rating increased, you are also correct that I should be trading those four-five people who are preventing me from tanking.

Austin Rivers has two years left in his contract without any options, while Layman has a TO and an opportunity for me to match any offer in two years.
I'm pretty sure people would find it better to wait for rivers and have his contract expire and offer for him rather than lose an asset to me for a one-two year rental. In the end I'm trying to get something than nothing.

I am approaching a lot of contenders or those who have capspace, asking them if they need some firepower. Trying to trade the players preventing me from tanking for value.

I mean I can't persuade you to change your verdict cause you have valid points, I'm just telling you what my mindset is at the moment. Steve Jobs

[Brian Scalabrine]

Can we get more votes here? I know 29 is a bit away but I might include it in a time sensitive deal. One more accept or five rejects.

[Ben Wallace]

I see a definite winner in terms of current value but nothing close to league-breaking. Accept.

[Steve Jobs]

Lol Brian Scalabrine, the vote count was 5-0 before I voted (though some of them maybe didn't quite include the minimum requirements for reasoning), so I'm pretty sure you aren't waiting on any votes at all. 24 hours has passed anyway, so even if you didn't have enough votes the trade appears to be passed.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Lit. Not sure why I thought we needed six... Good dealing with you, Clips! I hope Layman is a stud and you pick the guy I want to get at 33 with 32!