White Mamba
Milwaukee Bucks
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Post by White Mamba on Aug 1, 2017 23:28:43 GMT -5
Bucks trade:
53 Georgios Papagiannis $1,644,300 $1,715,100(TO) $2,630,963(TO) $3,696,504 (QO) 56 Noah Vonleh $3,505,232 $4,749,590 (QO) CHI 2020 2nd round pick Total: $5,149,532
Raptors trade: TOR 2018 1st top 3 protected, no conveyance
Raptors use cap space
This is a big gamble for our team. If that Toronto pick ends up in the top 3, we could end up shipping out 2 players on rookie contracts and a draft pick for absolutely nothing. However, there is also the chance Toronto does better than expected and I get the pick.
My team is sort of stuck in the middle and we need to take chances if we hope to move up in the standings. I like PapaG and Noah but I'm not their #1 fans so I don't mind taking a risk with these two. This is a lottery ticket that will either burn me or become a starting point in our rebuild. I hope its the latter.
Bucks accept.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 1, 2017 23:53:48 GMT -5
I accept. A calculated risk here. Obviously, we continue to tank hard this year, and try to keep our pick, which would get us these guys for free.
While I suspect this trade might be frowned upon, I implore you to look at our frontcourt depth right now. Thon, Lauri, Bell, and Bolomboy. While I like all of their potential, adding a couple lottery talents will really shore up our big men. I don't think people are high on Noah, but I think he's poised to break out this year, he was remarkably better when Nurk was on the floor, and is the starter for the Blazers this year and has improved each year and is very young. Not a guy who fills up the box score, but if you watch Blazer games you know that he plays team ball and plays his role very well.
I think Papa has very high potential as a defensive big, and I do believe he's well valued in this league.
So, if I get these two and keep my pick, I can draft a guy like Bagley, Porter, or Doncic, and I'll have one of the best young cores in the league. I think I only really kick myself for losing the pick of its four or five, after that I think there's a huge drop in talent in this class. That's a risk I have to take. I think part of rebuilding has to be getting young guys with potential while their value is low, and here I might get two guys who I think have role player floors, starter ceilings for free. I like those odds.
So, I accept.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 2, 2017 6:03:47 GMT -5
Reject, I don't like tanking teams trading there top 3 protected 1st, there's a huge chance Mamba gives up Papa G for free.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2017 6:57:54 GMT -5
I really like the fact that White Mamba is trading with Brian Scalabrine.
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Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Aug 2, 2017 8:36:43 GMT -5
Very likely Toronto will be in the bottom 5 next year. This are the odds for bottom 5 teams to get a top 3 pick in the lottery.
64.3% 55.8% 46.9% 37.8% 29.1%
So there is +30% chance that Bucks are giving these assets for free. If not conveyed in 2018, the pick should turn into 2019 pick (maybe top3 procted until it falls).
Reject
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 2, 2017 8:59:45 GMT -5
Very likely Toronto will be in the bottom 5 next year. This are the odds for bottom 5 teams to get a top 3 pick in the lottery. 64.3% 55.8% 46.9% 37.8% 29.1% So there is +30% chance that Bucks are giving these assets for free. If not conveyed in 2018, the pick should turn into 2019 pick (maybe top3 procted until it falls). Reject agreed
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Logan Hough
Memphis Grizzlies
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Total Bank: 11,000
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Post by Logan Hough on Aug 2, 2017 9:28:22 GMT -5
I will reject this as well. The math doesn't lie, this isn't a good bet.
It's a bad idea to lose papagiannis for nothing, and idk why a pick is included as well.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 2, 2017 11:19:31 GMT -5
Y'all are no fun
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2017 11:20:20 GMT -5
I actually accept this. I wouldn't do this if I was Toronto.
Papagiannis isn't much to give up for a 30% chance of a top 3 pick. I'd do it.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 2, 2017 11:21:52 GMT -5
I actually accept this. I wouldn't do this if I was Toronto. Papagiannis isn't much to give up for a 30% chance of a top 3 pick. I'd do it. See, this guy gets it. The pick is still the best asset in the trade.
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Logan Hough
Memphis Grizzlies
Posts: 339
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Post by Logan Hough on Aug 2, 2017 12:30:22 GMT -5
I feel like center prospects are good to keep for a while. Why no conveyance is what I'm thinking. If that was there even with the 2nd rounder this seems ok.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 2, 2017 12:46:06 GMT -5
The main reason for no conveyance here is that as the trade stands, it's a fair risk for both teams. He has a decent chance of getting a 6-4 range pick for much less than its worth, I have a decent chance at picking up two guys I like for free. If the pick were to convey, it would hurt my flexibility long term, and nearly ensure he'd get my pick this year or next. That's borderline robbery. Papa is good and all, but not the haul I'd look for when trading a pick. The reason he does the trade is that if he gets my pick this year, it's an amazing value for him. The reason I do it is that if I keep my pick, I get an amazing value.
If it conveyed to next year, he'd be getting to good of a deal, bottom line.
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Logan Hough
Memphis Grizzlies
Posts: 339
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Post by Logan Hough on Aug 2, 2017 12:59:08 GMT -5
You can convey something until it's fair value right? Too many trades with clear winners or losers might make a team unviable over time. This is not something I'd look to do in a trade, for either side really. Maybe I'm leaning too heavily on my opinion of trading.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 2, 2017 13:02:09 GMT -5
You can convey something until it's fair value right? Too many trades with clear winners or losers might make a team unviable over time. This is not something I'd look to do in a trade, for either side really. Maybe I'm leaning too heavily on my opinion of trading. Not sure what you mean by fair value. And, there's only one year of conveyance.
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Logan Hough
Memphis Grizzlies
Posts: 339
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Post by Logan Hough on Aug 2, 2017 13:30:57 GMT -5
So I don't think I understand our conveyance rules. And didn't see anything in our rules section about it either. I'll rescind my reject and let others decide. I don't have enough info to make a good decesion.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 2, 2017 14:18:38 GMT -5
2-1 in favor of reject
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White Mamba
Milwaukee Bucks
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Post by White Mamba on Aug 2, 2017 14:19:48 GMT -5
I actually accept this. I wouldn't do this if I was Toronto. Papagiannis isn't much to give up for a 30% chance of a top 3 pick. I'd do it. Exactly. I'm not a huge papagiannis fan personally. Same with vonleh. If I was to get any lottery pick from this trade it would be a huge win for our team. I urge people to accept this trade. I'm a long time gm from d5 and I have a long term plan that this trade puts into motion. Papa and Noah are marginal players to me and I get a pick that instantly becomes the best asset my team owns. If this trade is rejected I'll continue to be stuck with a team full of mediocre talent and without the ability to tank and get a high pick. This trade potentially gets me out of no man's land. This would be a huge blow to the Bucks if this is rejected. I implore GMs to consider the wider context here
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White Mamba
Milwaukee Bucks
Posts: 403
Likes: 338
Total Bank: 0
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Post by White Mamba on Aug 2, 2017 14:22:51 GMT -5
Very likely Toronto will be in the bottom 5 next year. This are the odds for bottom 5 teams to get a top 3 pick in the lottery. 64.3% 55.8% 46.9% 37.8% 29.1% Or from another perspective I have at least a 35% chance of #4 pick and probably an even greater chance of pick, given that Toronto may not finish with the worst record. If Toronto is the 3rd worst team then I have a better chance than not of getting the pick. The assets I'm giving up are not worth the #4 pick straight up (idk who would argue this) so we factor in the risk of potentially not getting anything. Anyone who says they wouldn't trade vonleh and papagiannis for a 40% chance at a top 5 pick is either lying or has a very different evaluation of those players than I do.
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White Mamba
Milwaukee Bucks
Posts: 403
Likes: 338
Total Bank: 0
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Post by White Mamba on Aug 2, 2017 14:27:19 GMT -5
And if none of what I said resonates, I'm not even planning to keep vonleh in RFA next year. So it's really just papag and a 2nd for this pick, since vonleh would be gone anyway.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 2, 2017 14:27:59 GMT -5
Heres the thing, theres a chance you get nothing in return for Papa G and 2nd and Vonleh. But theres also a chance that you get the 4th pick for all of them, both of those scenarios dont look fair so my reject still stands
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White Mamba
Milwaukee Bucks
Posts: 403
Likes: 338
Total Bank: 0
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Post by White Mamba on Aug 2, 2017 14:40:37 GMT -5
Heres the thing, theres a chance you get nothing in return for Papa G and 2nd and Vonleh. But theres also a chance that you get the 4th pick for all of them, both of those scenarios dont look fair so my reject still stands This seems illogical to me. To use your example, if I pay $5 for a 50% chance at $10 but otherwise I get $0 isn't that fair? Papag and Noah are the $5, the pick is the $10 and there's a chance I get 0. I can respect a difference in opinion but your reasoning seems flawed imo
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
Posts: 2,818
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 2, 2017 14:45:52 GMT -5
Heres the thing, theres a chance you get nothing in return for Papa G and 2nd and Vonleh. But theres also a chance that you get the 4th pick for all of them, both of those scenarios dont look fair so my reject still stands This seems illogical to me. To use your example, if I pay $5 for a 50% chance at $10 but otherwise I get $0 isn't that fair? Papag and Noah are the $5, the pick is the $10 and there's a chance I get 0. I can respect a difference in opinion but your reasoning seems flawed imo I disagree with that statement. Theres no scenario where this trade ends up fair, either you get a prospect from pick 4-7 next year or Brian gets all this stuff for free. Its gonna end up bad for one of you so I cant accept this trade knowing that
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2017 16:46:12 GMT -5
This seems illogical to me. To use your example, if I pay $5 for a 50% chance at $10 but otherwise I get $0 isn't that fair? Papag and Noah are the $5, the pick is the $10 and there's a chance I get 0. I can respect a difference in opinion but your reasoning seems flawed imo I disagree with that statement. Theres no scenario where this trade ends up fair, either you get a prospect from pick 4-7 next year or Brian gets all this stuff for free. Its gonna end up bad for one of you so I cant accept this trade knowing that interesting perspective, i agree with the premise, both situations would be rape either way it happens, but the fact that it's a gamble makes it exciting for me lol
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Yeezy
Dallas Mavericks
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Post by Yeezy on Aug 2, 2017 18:08:23 GMT -5
I will accept because I also like to live dangerously.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 2, 2017 18:31:44 GMT -5
I will accept because I also like to live dangerously. Atta boy
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Post by Julius Erving on Aug 2, 2017 19:42:38 GMT -5
I accept, it isn't franchise ruining in my opinion only because I'm not very high on Papagiannis and I think Vonleh is basically trash.
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Aug 3, 2017 15:39:09 GMT -5
3-2, trade passes after 24 hours
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White Mamba
Milwaukee Bucks
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Post by White Mamba on Feb 9, 2018 5:34:56 GMT -5
As of today, papagiannis has been released and Vonleh was traded to the Bulls for a foreign guy who will never play in the NBA.
Even if I never get this pick, everyone here who vetoed this because they thought I gave up too much was dead wrong :)
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Feb 9, 2018 8:13:15 GMT -5
As of today, papagiannis has been released and Vonleh was traded to the Bulls for a foreign guy who will never play in the NBA. Even if I never get this pick, everyone here who vetoed this because they thought I gave up too much was dead wrong :) You won't find a bigger fan of lazy-mclazergiannis than me, and even I said I wouldn't of done this as Toronto. Oi!
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Yeezy
Dallas Mavericks
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Post by Yeezy on Feb 10, 2018 1:34:06 GMT -5
Yeezy is always on the right side of history
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