Red Auerbach
 Boston Celtics
Posts: 531
Likes: 309
Total Bank: 37,000
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Post by Red Auerbach on Jul 25, 2015 22:17:56 GMT -5
Boston Celtics Trade:
PG 67 Isaiah Thomas $7,238,606 $6,912,869 $6,587,131 $6,261,394
SF 48 Metta World Peace $1,000,000
C 49 Glen Davis $1,000,000
GF 47 Ronnie Brewer $800,000
$10,038,606
for
Miami Heat Trade:
PG 72 Tony Parker $12,500,000 $13,437,500 $14,445,313 $15,453,126
$12,500,000
$10,038,606 x 1.25 = $12,548,257
I accept. I get a starting PG who has been proven to be able to run a team.
Parker is a championship caliber point guard where Thomas has proven to be a good bench scorer.
Thomas has the better salary and Miami gets 3 good role players.
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Post by Donald Trump on Jul 25, 2015 22:19:30 GMT -5
I accept, i want younger PG and i will waive ronnie brewer so i can have the limit of 15 players
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Steve Jobs
 Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918 
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 25, 2015 22:31:48 GMT -5
Even ignoring the 3 other players, which should be unnecessary in this deal since 4 years of 26-30 year old Thomas is equal to, if not more valuable than, 5 years of 32-37 year old Tony Parker, I think this trade is bad. Isaiah Thomas at 26 is an infinitely better trade piece and long term prospect for Boston. Making a stock watch thread for a guy that averaged 20/6/3 in Sacramento and 19/5/2 once he landed in Boston would easily get him up to at least a 69-70. I like Tony Parker a lot, but he's already 33 and on the decline. Within a year they'll be worth the same rating, and Isaiah Thomas has a front loaded 27M/4 years that is basically the holy grail of contracts for potential star players.
I say no to this one - for Boston's sake. It makes no sense for them.
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Post by Donald Trump on Jul 25, 2015 22:36:53 GMT -5
he wants to contend now and parker is beasting in this sim
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Post by Donald Trump on Jul 25, 2015 22:39:49 GMT -5
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918
Likes: 2,107
Total Bank: 50,500
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 25, 2015 22:45:55 GMT -5
I respect that Red wants to contend, but I can't in good faith let him trade away his future when he's got virtually no chance at a championship this season. Sacramento, Toronto, LAC, and ironically enough you with Miami, are all too loaded with talent for most good teams to think they're winning this year. And worse yet, his team wasn't built to contend this year, so without trading away MORE of his future, he's still going to be a looong way off. Westbrook/IT is a great pairing for the foreseeable future, and he's got a bunch of young talent like Steven Adams, Hardaway Jr., Kyle O'Quinn that is worth building around and just needs a few years to get there. When the teams at the top are this loaded, he is way better off flipping good players for assets now, aiming for a higher draft pick, and building for the future.
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Post by Donald Trump on Jul 25, 2015 22:58:24 GMT -5
I respect that Red wants to contend, but I can't in good faith let him trade away his future when he's got virtually no chance at a championship this season. Sacramento, Toronto, LAC, and ironically enough you with Miami, are all too loaded with talent for most good teams to think they're winning this year. And worse yet, his team wasn't built to contend this year, so without trading away MORE of his future, he's still going to be a looong way off. Westbrook/IT is a great pairing for the foreseeable future, and he's got a bunch of young talent like Steven Adams, Hardaway Jr., Kyle O'Quinn that is worth building around and just needs a few years to get there. When the teams at the top are this loaded, he is way better off flipping good players for assets now, aiming for a higher draft pick, and building for the future. he can be as loaded as the other teams with the addition of parker. parker has also a great performance rating in this sim |
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918
Likes: 2,107
Total Bank: 50,500
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 25, 2015 23:10:15 GMT -5
Parker does nothing to improve his depth, which is horrible because it was built to tank. It raises the average rating of his starting line up by about 1, before either of the major players involved in the trade have gone through stock watch, in which case it will improve his starting line up significantly less and hurt his future significantly more.
I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be talked into accepting this one. It doesn't matter how much Boston wants to contend, or how much this trade would do it for him, you're straight up killing him in this trade.
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Post by Donald Trump on Jul 25, 2015 23:40:39 GMT -5
Parker does nothing to improve his depth, which is horrible because it was built to tank. It raises the average rating of his starting line up by about 1, before either of the major players involved in the trade have gone through stock watch, in which case it will improve his starting line up significantly less and hurt his future significantly more. I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be talked into accepting this one. It doesn't matter how much Boston wants to contend, or how much this trade would do it for him, you're straight up killing him in this trade. parker is rated 72 and thomas is 67 a difference of 5 rating in this sim is huge. it does not raise the rating of his starters by 1..5 is a significant boost..then he still has adams,hardaway,afflalo and johnson for depth..and has the option if he want to sign others in free agency by declining west or looking at west's perfromance for the spurs and accepting his option..if he declines he will have good amount of cap space and can sign a good free agent..hehehe... I hope you change your mind and accept this is not lopsided as you think.. |
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billy
 Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jul 26, 2015 0:08:39 GMT -5
I'm not sold on Isaiah Thomas, his ceiling isn't that great. Yeah, he may be a potential 6th man type by the end of that contract and retain value longer than tony parker, but isaiah thomas will never be great, he will never start for a team that wins the D720 championship. Tony Parker might.
I accept.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918
Likes: 2,107
Total Bank: 50,500
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 26, 2015 0:10:04 GMT -5
Parker is rated 72 (played the 14-15 season like a 67) and Thomas is a 67 (played the end of the 14-15 season like 69). The jump from Thomas to Parker changes the AVERAGE rating of his starting line up by 1 (5 points divided by 5 players = 1), which is a good different, but not a "lift me up into contention" difference. And again, I think Thomas definitely deserves a stock watch up from 67, which closes the gap quite a bit. And that's assuming that Parker doesn't come out playing in 15-16 like he did 14-15 to earn himself a decreased rating... Thomas is good enough to make up the gap completely in the next couple years if he continues to play like has has since joining Sacramento.
Secondly: The cap space he can gain by declining West's option is cap space that he would still have with Thomas (he'd actually have about $6M MORE cap space with Thomas), and he could still use it to sign a good free agent (actually, a free agent worth an entire 6M more!).
And finally, can't stress this enough: Thomas is 26 while Parker is 33! If it was a large rating gap between them, or a small age gap between them, there could be some saving grace in this trade and I'd feel like Boston might be gaining enough to merit the loss to their future prospects. But it's not. A 26 year old with bird rights, just entering his prime and deserving of a rating closer to 70 than 67, that will cost him more than $6 Million LESS than Parker.
It's giving up cap space and a ~10 year window of potential to contend for the 2-3 year window left on a declining PG who struggles with injuries and can't keep up on defense anymore. That's the very definition of a bad trade.
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billy
Miami Heat
Posts: 7,174
Likes: 6,145
Total Bank: 3,050
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Post by billy on Jul 26, 2015 0:14:10 GMT -5
Isaiah Thomas is a 66-67 to me. Tyreke Evans is a 67, Jrue Holiday is a 67... I wouldn't rate Thomas higher than either of those players.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918
Likes: 2,107
Total Bank: 50,500
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 26, 2015 0:23:54 GMT -5
I'm not sold on Isaiah Thomas, his ceiling isn't that great. Yeah, he may be a potential 6th man type by the end of that contract and retain value longer than tony parker, but isaiah thomas will never be great, he will never start for a team that wins the D720 championship. Tony Parker might. I accept. I disagree with that, honestly. In my opinion, he might be 66-67 on par with Tyreke and Jrue right now, but his ceiling should be right around 69-70 (just like Jrue and Tyreke)... and that's easily a top 50 player. We're watching Deron Williams lead a team very well with a 69 rating, no reason to assume that Thomas couldn't accomplish a similar feat on a roster with enough talent to win it all. And that's the worst part: Thomas doesn't even have to start at Point Guard for Boston, because they have Westbrook. Some of the best shooting guards are only there to play defense and be good shooters, and might be asked to take over ball-handling when the point guard sits or gets tired. Thomas fits that role perfectly (except the defense, but he's not absolutely dreadful at defense either). Or, once the roster fills out a little more, Thomas could be an elite sixth man (a la prime Manu Ginobili). We watched him do it very well with Boston and they put up a lot of wins along the way. And why would we act like Tony Parker will be winning any championships this year with that Boston team? I'm sorry, it's just not gonna happen and everyone here knows it. IT might not have a "championship team's starting Point Guard" caliber potential, but he has better trade value, a smaller cap hit, and a much longer window in which he can help a team be competitive. I'm not asking anyone else to vote against this trade, but if I'm the only one that sees this trade is a massive win for Miami then I'm not sure what anyone else is looking at. |
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jul 26, 2015 1:49:38 GMT -5
Marcus Smart is out this season in Boston, should give him a nice minute load.. I need to think about it.
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Post by John Stockton on Jul 26, 2015 7:34:37 GMT -5
I respect that Red wants to contend, but I can't in good faith let him trade away his future when he's got virtually no chance at a championship this season. This. Sorry, AJ. Upgrading from IT to Parker is not going to make him a contender and it's still not close. |
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918
Likes: 2,107
Total Bank: 50,500
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 26, 2015 8:55:34 GMT -5
Marcus Smart is out this season in Boston, should give him a nice minute load.. I need to think about it. Marcus Smart isn't out this season. |
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Reggie Miller
 Indiana Pacers
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Total Bank: 6,000
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Post by Reggie Miller on Jul 26, 2015 22:13:26 GMT -5
Hmmm... The Celtics have a point Guard already with WEstbrook... I dont see why Parker helping Boston to contend.. They will be jammed at the PG position
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Red Auerbach
Boston Celtics
Posts: 531
Likes: 309
Total Bank: 37,000
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Post by Red Auerbach on Jul 27, 2015 4:45:36 GMT -5
3 rejections - 1 acceptance
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billy
Miami Heat
Posts: 7,174
Likes: 6,145
Total Bank: 3,050
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Post by billy on Jul 27, 2015 22:51:42 GMT -5
Trade rejected. Back to the drawing board.
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