Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Min-Chi
Jun 10, 2018 11:27:38 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jun 10, 2018 11:27:38 GMT -5
ehh.. I don't really like Lavine's chance of getting much better than this, so for me this doesn't look bad. He is really bad in defense and not a great finisher at rim if there is any defense. Overrated good spot-up shooter. Maybe Minny paid more to get him, but we should not also force him to sunk cost fallacy. I think this is ok price to get away and not having to pay max contract. For me #16, #30 and Hart = decent lottery pick in value, which is not bad for Lavine. Accept I mean Minny has a tough offseason going with so many UFAS, but they are probably better off overpaying Dinwiddie and Barton probably with about same price as when giving max contract to Lavine. I don't think losing Lavine hurts really their chance to resign others. You and I have very different views on Lavine. He was averaging over 20 on good efficiency for a good portion of the season next to Wiggins and KAT prior to his injury in 16-17 and put together a very solid month (something like 22/3/3) this year despite still getting back to form and dealing with other injuries that, due to the Bulls tank, got him shut down (a la Ben Simmons getting shut down for a year even though he probably could have played plenty of last season). I know he's got some holes in his game, but 1) he's young and still has PLENTY of room to grow offensively, 2) plenty of great players look extremely questionable on defense with players around them that don't fit defensively - Harden's a much better player, but he's a similarly poor defender that still provides elite contributions to his team as a result, and with CP3, Ariza, and Capela, and other solid defenders around him he's been able to show marked improvements in that realm. I suspect Lavine could prove the same. Wiggins and KAT were notably bad defenders and very few of the Bulls young core have proven to be good in that regard either. When the team defense is bad, it's difficult to label one of the individual players as an irredeemably bad defender. Is Lavine a guarantee for a player worth maxing? Debatable. But he is a guarantee to return in free agency, since he's an RFA. Is he the wolves best current asset and far more worth keeping than most of the other players that he wants to keep that are UFAs and not a guarantee to re-sign? Absolutely. This trade is easily rejectable. Plan or no, what he traded for Lavine was a nearly-rejectable underpay in my mind, and it's not forcing Nick into a "sunk cost" fallacy to suggest his best course of action is to keep him or ask for more. Reject.
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Post by DJ Jazzy Jeff on Jun 10, 2018 11:33:01 GMT -5
Trust the Process, accept
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Min-Chi
Jun 10, 2018 11:41:24 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 10, 2018 11:41:24 GMT -5
3-2 in favor of accept. Lal and world wide west both didn't officially vote but I assume it'll be a reject from charlotte and accept from lal.
Brian reject Steve reject Stuff accept Theodore accept Jazzy accept
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White Mamba
Milwaukee Bucks
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Post by White Mamba on Jun 10, 2018 13:09:47 GMT -5
I'll accept lavine is overrated. I wouldn't wanna pay his next contract. That said this is really bad asset management by minny. He traded a whole lot to more than this to get Zach just to get swept and trade him away for less. If he keeps making these moves minny will be in trouble
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Min-Chi
Jun 10, 2018 13:19:08 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 10, 2018 13:19:08 GMT -5
4-2
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Min-Chi
Jun 10, 2018 13:24:22 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 10, 2018 13:24:22 GMT -5
This is rich for Zach Lavine. Aside from re-injury risks, the dude has been a consistent source of 20/3/3 when healthy since last year, and Minnesota just acquired him for Winslow, Kennard, and a future 1st. Forgive me for not feeling like Josh Hart, Pick #16, Pick #30, and a 2nd round pick is "rich" compared to what was given up for him. I think Hart is a better asset then Winslow and kennard
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Min-Chi
Jun 10, 2018 13:28:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 13:28:19 GMT -5
Either way im not a winslow or kennard guy never have been. Plus i inherited them. I cant resign all 4 without going over 150 million so someone had to go. Lavine and porter were my options so i can get something back. That being said porter is still available
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Min-Chi
Jun 10, 2018 13:44:33 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 13:44:33 GMT -5
Reject, Minnesota just trades to be trading. He has no plan and is slowly giving away all his assets.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jun 10, 2018 19:35:12 GMT -5
Aside from re-injury risks, the dude has been a consistent source of 20/3/3 when healthy since last year, and Minnesota just acquired him for Winslow, Kennard, and a future 1st. Forgive me for not feeling like Josh Hart, Pick #16, Pick #30, and a 2nd round pick is "rich" compared to what was given up for him. I think Hart is a better asset then Winslow and kennard How? Hart is a former Pick #30 who, despite some solid stretches in the season (mostly thanks to opportunities he only got because of injuries in front of him), maxes out as a 3rd or 4th option starter (behind Lonzo/Ingram at best) or 6th man... and that's IF PG/LeBron/none of the other LAL targets end up coming. Winslow is still very young (a year younger than Hart), an excellent defender that, even failing to develop into a more complete offensive player, can be an elite defensive role player, and also has the means to grow into a legitimate scoring threat. Kennard is also young (under 22 for a few more days), progressed nicely month to month in his rookie year, and put up 16.5/4.6/3.9 on 51/45/91 shooting splits (.649 TS%) in his 8 games with 30-39 minutes this season. Maybe not on track to be a legitimate star, but definitely has solid upside and is a decent shooter as expected. So Hart being a more valuable asset than either of them is 100% questionable, but... Combined with the fact that by 2020, MIN's 1st round pick from that first trade could possibly be in the same 15-20 range that the highest pick in the current trade nets him, and the comparison between the two deals looks even worse.
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jun 10, 2018 19:38:18 GMT -5
Aside from re-injury risks, the dude has been a consistent source of 20/3/3 when healthy since last year, and Minnesota just acquired him for Winslow, Kennard, and a future 1st. Forgive me for not feeling like Josh Hart, Pick #16, Pick #30, and a 2nd round pick is "rich" compared to what was given up for him. I think Hart is a better asset then Winslow and kennard lol
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Min-Chi
Jun 10, 2018 20:10:06 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 10, 2018 20:10:06 GMT -5
I think Hart is a better asset then Winslow and kennard lol you think Lonzo ball is good at basketball haha
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Jun 10, 2018 20:12:36 GMT -5
you think Lonzo ball is good at basketball haha Even worse. He thinks Monroe is good at defense. (rofl)
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jun 10, 2018 21:09:33 GMT -5
you think Lonzo ball is good at basketball haha he'll be one of the greatest of all time
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Min-Chi
Jun 10, 2018 21:10:35 GMT -5
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billy likes this
Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jun 10, 2018 21:10:35 GMT -5
you think Lonzo ball is good at basketball haha Even worse. He thinks Monroe is good at defense. (rofl) he's a moose, of course he's a good defender
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Min-Chi
Jun 11, 2018 6:54:13 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 11, 2018 6:54:13 GMT -5
4-3
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Min-Chi
Jun 11, 2018 9:12:28 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 9:12:28 GMT -5
Is this passed?
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Min-Chi
Jun 11, 2018 10:07:23 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jun 11, 2018 10:07:23 GMT -5
Pretty sure the trade this is contingent on hasn't even passed yet, so... no.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Min-Chi
Jun 11, 2018 11:18:35 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 11, 2018 11:18:35 GMT -5
Pretty sure the trade this is contingent on hasn't even passed yet, so... no. I think the tor-chi went through
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Min-Chi
Jun 11, 2018 20:31:12 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 20:31:12 GMT -5
4 accepts trade passed i think
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 12, 2018 6:40:16 GMT -5
I think it needs one more
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 13, 2018 9:00:26 GMT -5
I accept this deal. Definitely don’t wanna pay Lavine what he is owed. Decent upside but this could look worse than the Kcp deal PP gave him last year.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Min-Chi
Jun 13, 2018 9:18:43 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 13, 2018 9:18:43 GMT -5
Trade passed
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Min-Chi
Jun 22, 2018 23:14:55 GMT -5
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jun 22, 2018 23:14:55 GMT -5
checked, already done
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Min-Chi
Jun 23, 2018 15:24:53 GMT -5
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 23, 2018 15:24:53 GMT -5
So this trade is in the wake of LAL 2019 destruction as well, which then blossoms into TOR-MIN Otto Porter trade as well.
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Jackie Kong
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Min-Chi
Jun 23, 2018 15:27:05 GMT -5
Post by Jackie Kong on Jun 23, 2018 15:27:05 GMT -5
Think this trade is valid though. And so is the Porter trade.
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