Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 0:34:55 GMT -5
OKC Trades:
(65) Khris Middleton - $915,243 $1,181,348 2017 1st Round Pick 2018 2nd Round Pick
Salary Traded: $915,243 Salary Before Trade: $55,944,798 Salary After Trade: $57,038,303
ORL Trades
(71) Jimmy Butler - $2,008,748 $4,433,683
Salary Traded: $2,008,748 Salary Before Trade: $31,891,775 Salary After Trade: $30,798,270
I accept this trade. I 100% believe Khris Middleton will be a star near the level of Jimmy Butler in the near future, so in a way it pains me to do this. But Jimmy Buckets has already reached that star potential and he'll be very useful in a championship run this year. Middleton will improve Orlando's ability to lose games this season while having very similar long term potential to Butler, and Khris will almost certainly demand a lower price tag than Butler this offseason as they both journey into Restricted Free Agency. This trade fits both of our long term plans for our teams and benefits us in the short term as well.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 0:38:24 GMT -5
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Post by Steven Armstead on Aug 2, 2015 1:01:43 GMT -5
I accept. Getting Middleton in return helps the blow of losing Jimmy Butler, but I am unsure if I will be able to resign Buckets.
Since I am obviously in rebuilding mode, I need draft picks. The 2018 first round draft pick will help immensely.
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Post by John Stockton on Aug 2, 2015 1:29:44 GMT -5
1st and 2nd is not nearly enough for a swap between these two players. reject.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 7:52:39 GMT -5
I accept. Getting Middleton in return helps the blow of losing Jimmy Butler, but I am unsure if I will be able to resign Buckets. Since I am obviously in rebuilding mode, I need draft picks. The 2018 first round draft pick will help immensely. Dude Jimmy Butler is a RFA, you are 100% guaranteed to resign him if you have the cap space.
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Post by Donald Trump on Aug 2, 2015 8:20:45 GMT -5
okc has cap space to resign butler, middleton has great potential but his peak form might be delayed or not be translated into play because of the "Stacked prospect" lineup of MIL in real life. Im doubtful that middleton will reach the status that jimmy butler has reached so the picks are a good way for compensation. I accept
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 8:44:16 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure why Steven's argument for himself was less convincing than mine for him (not being able to resign Buckets, calling the 2017 1st a 2018 1st, etc...), but since the initial reactions seem a bit unfavorable, I'm going to include the statistical reasoning behind my statement that Middleton can and will be a star at Jimmy's level into this thread so that everybody else gets a chance to look at it before voting. Here's an article that compiles a lot of the stats and arguments for Middleton: behindthebuckpass.com/2015/07/29/khris-middleton-next-jimmy-butler-stats-say-hes-close/ Here is a comparison between Middleton's 14-15 season and Butler's 13-14 season - each player's 3rd year in the league: www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=butleji01&y1=2014&p2=middlkh01&y2=2015&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6= -- Not just damn near identical: favorable to Khris in almost every way. (Look at the mpg difference!) Stats comparison for both of their 14-15 seasons: www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=butleji01&y1=2015&p2=middlkh01&y2=2015&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6= -- Same numbers for Middleton and a meteoric rise for Buckets (still playing 38.7 mpg). BUT: Look at the per 36 numbers here! Jimmy Butler is insanely efficient, but still plays an entire 8.6 minutes per game more than Middleton... Their per 36 numbers are nearly identical, with roughly half of the stats, including all of the percentages, literally favoring Middleton. It's nearly impossible to claim that a small bump in mpg and usage% for Middleton, with his efficiency and great percentages across the board, couldn't *easily* turn into a replication of Jimmy Butler's break out season. Plus he's two years younger than Buckets, an age difference that shouldn't be taken lightly. The only player on that Milwaukee team as likely for a rise in numbers is Giannis, but looking at their 14-15 stats, there is virtually no evidence to point at a breakout season for Giannis being more likely than a breakout for Middleton. Greg does him own thing, so his touches won't limit the breakout potential for any of the wings. Middleton might have already quietly been the best player on the team last year, and I think even with Greg and Giannis' breakout potential, Middleton is still the most likely player to take that jump next season. Overall, between the money involved on both sides, the near-certainty that this trade forces me to find another trade in order to keep my team intact, and the fact that Steven could be simultaneously improving his chances to tank while picking up a 1st round pick AND a player with potential on par with Butler's, I thought the case was already pretty compelling. But this compiling of stats-driven resources that say Khris Middleton can, and almost certainly will, be following in Butler's footsteps soon makes any other argument you could need. If after all of this you still want to pretend the trade is lopsided, then I genuinely don't know what you're looking for.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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OKC-ORL
Aug 2, 2015 10:05:45 GMT -5
Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 2, 2015 10:05:45 GMT -5
Damn okc will be stacked if this goes through
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 10:29:14 GMT -5
>using per 36 numbers as the only argument for why a trade isn't retarded
I see what you did thar
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 10:45:34 GMT -5
As the only argument? Did you just see that I said the words "per 36" once and literally not pay attention to anything else?
-The huge difference in money that Butler will be owed. -The fact that Middleton's 3rd year in the league was 100% better than Butler's 3rd year in the league. -Per 36 is a FANTASTIC way to compare two players when one of them plays almost 9 whole minutes more per game than the other (spoiler alert, Middleton would have had a breakout year with 38.7 mpg and an extra 1.7% usage as well). -He's getting what should be a relatively useful 1st and 2nd round pick on top of that.
That's not even all the arguments I made, but it's all I'm going to take the time to restate.
On top of this, we let a trade go through that essentially pitted Jabari Parker, who I know you hate, as an equal player to Butler, which is silly. At least I tried to make up for the value difference between them. If Jabari equals Butler, Middleton+1st+2nd should easily equal Butler, considering all the other factors here.
I can understand some naysaying, but this trade is far from lopsided.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 11:28:54 GMT -5
As the only argument? Did you just see that I said the words "per 36" once and literally not pay attention to anything else? -The huge difference in money that Butler will be owed. -The fact that Middleton's 3rd year in the league was 100% better than Butler's 3rd year in the league. -Per 36 is a FANTASTIC way to compare two players when one of them plays almost 9 whole minutes more per game than the other (spoiler alert, Middleton would have had a breakout year with 38.7 mpg and an extra 1.7% usage as well). -He's getting what should be a relatively useful 1st and 2nd round pick on top of that. That's not even all the arguments I made, but it's all I'm going to take the time to restate. On top of this, we let a trade go through that essentially pitted Jabari Parker, who I know you hate, as an equal player to Butler, which is silly. At least I tried to make up for the value difference between them. If Jabari equals Butler, Middleton+1st+2nd should easily equal Butler, considering all the other factors here. I can understand some naysaying, but this trade is far from lopsided. The 2nd is worthless and and the first is years in the future. Jimmy butler is an all star who is the best player on his team and just got Fred hoiberg and will be he highest usage and best player on his team for the foreseeable future. His talent level is also ridiculously higher than Middletons. The ceiling of Middleton in his situation isn't what butler is producing right now. Who cares what their per 36 is. Per 36 is only a pretty useful stat when discussing backups, for starters it's nearly worthless. Because if Middleton was as good as his per 36 suggests then he would be playing those minutes. I'm going to reject.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Aug 2, 2015 11:52:16 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 11:52:16 GMT -5
If I throw in another prospect, would you still find it rejectable?
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Aug 2, 2015 12:08:40 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 12:08:40 GMT -5
As the only argument? Did you just see that I said the words "per 36" once and literally not pay attention to anything else? -The huge difference in money that Butler will be owed. -The fact that Middleton's 3rd year in the league was 100% better than Butler's 3rd year in the league. -Per 36 is a FANTASTIC way to compare two players when one of them plays almost 9 whole minutes more per game than the other (spoiler alert, Middleton would have had a breakout year with 38.7 mpg and an extra 1.7% usage as well). -He's getting what should be a relatively useful 1st and 2nd round pick on top of that. That's not even all the arguments I made, but it's all I'm going to take the time to restate. On top of this, we let a trade go through that essentially pitted Jabari Parker, who I know you hate, as an equal player to Butler, which is silly. At least I tried to make up for the value difference between them. If Jabari equals Butler, Middleton+1st+2nd should easily equal Butler, considering all the other factors here. I can understand some naysaying, but this trade is far from lopsided. The 2nd is worthless and and the first is years in the future. Jimmy butler is an all star who is the best player on his team and just got Fred hoiberg and will be he highest usage and best player on his team for the foreseeable future. His talent level is also ridiculously higher than Middletons. The ceiling of Middleton in his situation isn't what butler is producing right now. Who cares what their per 36 is. Per 36 is only a pretty useful stat when discussing backups, for starters it's nearly worthless. Because if Middleton was as good as his per 36 suggests then he would be playing those minutes. I'm going to reject. I think there are two points here that hinder your intended argument: we don't know for sure what Fred's plan for the team is, but it's nearly impossible to give a player more than 39 minutes a game. Chances are he plays a lot less with better usage, but Rose will still be ball dominant regardless of Fred Hoiberg's plan so there's no guarantee Butler's usage skyrockets. On the other hand, saying Middleton not getting 36 minutes means he doesn't deserve it is flawed thinking. OJ Mayo getting paid something like 8M a year is clear reasoning for why Middleton wasn't getting huge minutes, but Middleton is CLEARLY the best SG on that team, and having to fight his way out from under Mayo to get playing time as a starter, as well as Brandon Knight having a crazy high usage, is a couple obvious reasons why, of course his minutes and usage look down in context of the whole season. But in March Middleton was averaging over 17 points per game, so clearly at the end of the season he was already showing signs of going farther than what his already very good per 36 numbers suggest.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Aug 2, 2015 14:06:44 GMT -5
Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 14:06:44 GMT -5
The 2nd is worthless and and the first is years in the future. Jimmy butler is an all star who is the best player on his team and just got Fred hoiberg and will be he highest usage and best player on his team for the foreseeable future. His talent level is also ridiculously higher than Middletons. The ceiling of Middleton in his situation isn't what butler is producing right now. Who cares what their per 36 is. Per 36 is only a pretty useful stat when discussing backups, for starters it's nearly worthless. Because if Middleton was as good as his per 36 suggests then he would be playing those minutes. I'm going to reject. I think there are two points here that hinder your intended argument: we don't know for sure what Fred's plan for the team is, but it's nearly impossible to give a player more than 39 minutes a game. Chances are he plays a lot less with better usage, but Rose will still be ball dominant regardless of Fred Hoiberg's plan so there's no guarantee Butler's usage skyrockets. On the other hand, saying Middleton not getting 36 minutes means he doesn't deserve it is flawed thinking. OJ Mayo getting paid something like 8M a year is clear reasoning for why Middleton wasn't getting huge minutes, but Middleton is CLEARLY the best SG on that team, and having to fight his way out from under Mayo to get playing time as a starter, as well as Brandon Knight having a crazy high usage, is a couple obvious reasons why, of course his minutes and usage look down in context of the whole season. But in March Middleton was averaging over 17 points per game, so clearly at the end of the season he was already showing signs of going farther than what his already very good per 36 numbers suggest. Your argument does not fall on deaf ears, but we both know that Middleton is worse nothing close to butler, let alone a couple picks 3 years from now. Thats why you're doing this. That's why you're willing to add more to do it. *shrugs* I feel like this trade is much more lopsided than most of the trades you reject here. But of course, that's just an opinion. I don't think Khris Middleton's ceiling is above Jimmy Butlers knees. It's also bothersome that Orlando thinks they might not be able to resign butler this offseason, and negotiated the trade under this pretense. Very troubling.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Aug 2, 2015 17:48:55 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 17:48:55 GMT -5
I think there are two points here that hinder your intended argument: we don't know for sure what Fred's plan for the team is, but it's nearly impossible to give a player more than 39 minutes a game. Chances are he plays a lot less with better usage, but Rose will still be ball dominant regardless of Fred Hoiberg's plan so there's no guarantee Butler's usage skyrockets. On the other hand, saying Middleton not getting 36 minutes means he doesn't deserve it is flawed thinking. OJ Mayo getting paid something like 8M a year is clear reasoning for why Middleton wasn't getting huge minutes, but Middleton is CLEARLY the best SG on that team, and having to fight his way out from under Mayo to get playing time as a starter, as well as Brandon Knight having a crazy high usage, is a couple obvious reasons why, of course his minutes and usage look down in context of the whole season. But in March Middleton was averaging over 17 points per game, so clearly at the end of the season he was already showing signs of going farther than what his already very good per 36 numbers suggest. Your argument does not fall on deaf ears, but we both know that Middleton is worse nothing close to butler, let alone a couple picks 3 years from now. Thats why you're doing this. That's why you're willing to add more to do it. *shrugs* I feel like this trade is much more lopsided than most of the trades you reject here. But of course, that's just an opinion. I don't think Khris Middleton's ceiling is above Jimmy Butlers knees. It's also bothersome that Orlando thinks they might not be able to resign butler this offseason, and negotiated the trade under this pretense. Very troubling. For starters, I never said I was willing to offer more, I simply asked if adding more would change your mind - I don't know yet if I think it'd be worth the potential long term loss to offer more. Jimmy Butler is an amazing player, but making an offer like this for him is not my way of saying I think his value is head and shoulders above what Middleton can ever be. I'm offering this deal because in the short term Middleton won't be good enough to make me feel like my team is a real contender this season, and I don't have a secure enough future, with two expiring stars and two RFAs, to feel like I can wait around for Middleton to improve. But Khris Middleton at 23 with 3 seasons in the league has already reached a level of play above "Butler's knees" and he isn't even close to peaking yet, so that's a bold and indefensible view point. yesnetwork.stats.com/nba/playerstats.asp?id=5073&page=splitsIf you look at his monthly splits, he improved steadily, and was getting minutes closer to what he deserved as the year progressed - stat line for March was: 17.7 pts, 4.3 reb, 3.2 Ast, 1.33 stls on 43.7% FG, 42% 3PT, 85.7% FT... aka he hasn't broken out yet, but he's definitely got it in him, which is exactly where Butler was before this last season. For a team like Orlando that has stated outright they know they'll be rebuilding for years and has the time to wait for prospects to reach their potential, a guy like Middleton with a lower price tag and similar potential is a great player to acquire. For a team like mine with active championship hopes and four starters jumping into Free Agency this summer, a player like Butler is a better fit. But I genuinely mean it when I say that in my opinion, this trade is equal or better in the long term for Orlando. The only reason I'm only willing to do it is because every team's eventual goal is winning championship because it is the most important thing... and I believe the trade increases my prospects of winning a championship enough to sacrifice better long term financial stability, a player whose ceiling I firmly believe is nearly equal to the one I'm acquiring, and a couple picks, both of which could end up being worth more than has so far been assumed. Lastly, I think you're really missing the mark by saying I've rejected trades less lopsided than this. I disagree with that regardless, but I am tough on trades because a) most of the TC isn't, and b) the entire purpose of a TC is to protect the long term parity of the league. I've never rejected a trade here that I didn't feel hurt a team long-term in ways they might not have considered. I try to take a stance against throwing away long term value for face-level value in the better interest of a team not giving away more than they're getting back over the next few years. And I've never rejected a trade without doing copious research to confirm my opinion (sometimes the research changes my mind!), or without going through the exact reasons I think the trade is rejectable, line by line, to make sure both sides understand my (famously long-winded) view point. Neither of the rejections here have offered quite that same level of thoroughness, so it feels fair to defend the trade rather than accepting that it might not go through and starting to retool it.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 18:01:15 GMT -5
Your argument does not fall on deaf ears, but we both know that Middleton is worse nothing close to butler, let alone a couple picks 3 years from now. Thats why you're doing this. That's why you're willing to add more to do it. *shrugs* I feel like this trade is much more lopsided than most of the trades you reject here. But of course, that's just an opinion. I don't think Khris Middleton's ceiling is above Jimmy Butlers knees. It's also bothersome that Orlando thinks they might not be able to resign butler this offseason, and negotiated the trade under this pretense. Very troubling. For starters, I never said I was willing to offer more, I simply asked if adding more would change your mind - I don't know yet if I think it'd be worth the potential long term loss to offer more. Jimmy Butler is an amazing player, but making an offer like this for him is not my way of saying I think his value is head and shoulders above what Middleton can ever be. I'm offering this deal because in the short term Middleton won't be good enough to make me feel like my team is a real contender this season, and I don't have a secure enough future, with two expiring stars and two RFAs, to feel like I can wait around for Middleton to improve. But Khris Middleton at 23 with 3 seasons in the league has already reached a level of play above "Butler's knees" and he isn't even close to peaking yet, so that's a bold and indefensible view point. yesnetwork.stats.com/nba/playerstats.asp?id=5073&page=splitsIf you look at his monthly splits, he improved steadily, and was getting minutes closer to what he deserved as the year progressed - stat line for March was: 17.7 pts, 4.3 reb, 3.2 Ast, 1.33 stls on 43.7% FG, 42% 3PT, 85.7% FT... aka he hasn't broken out yet, but he's definitely got it in him, which is exactly where Butler was before this last season. For a team like Orlando that has stated outright they know they'll be rebuilding for years and has the time to wait for prospects to reach their potential, a guy like Middleton with a lower price tag and similar potential is a great player to acquire. For a team like mine with active championship hopes and four starters jumping into Free Agency this summer, a player like Butler is a better fit. But I genuinely mean it when I say that in my opinion, this trade is equal or better in the long term for Orlando. The only reason I'm only willing to do it is because every team's eventual goal is winning championship because it is the most important thing... and I believe the trade increases my prospects of winning a championship enough to sacrifice better long term financial stability, a player whose ceiling I firmly believe is nearly equal to the one I'm acquiring, and a couple picks, both of which could end up being worth more than has so far been assumed. Lastly, I think you're really missing the mark by saying I've rejected trades less lopsided than this. I disagree with that regardless, but I am tough on trades because a) most of the TC isn't, and b) the entire purpose of a TC is to protect the long term parity of the league. I've never rejected a trade here that I didn't feel hurt a team long-term in ways they might not have considered. I try to take a stance against throwing away long term value for face-level value in the better interest of a team not giving away more than they're getting back over the next few years. And I've never rejected a trade without doing copious research to confirm my opinion (sometimes the research changes my mind!), or without going through the exact reasons I think the trade is rejectable, line by line, to make sure both sides understand my (famously long-winded) view point. Neither of the rejections here have offered quite that same level of thoroughness, so it feels fair to defend the trade rather than accepting that it might not go through and starting to retool it. And you honestly don't think this seriously hurts orlandos talent level for years to come?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Aug 2, 2015 18:10:06 GMT -5
Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 18:10:06 GMT -5
Jimmy butler was taken as the 20th overall player, Khris Middleton the 98th overall player. How off do you think those spots are?
Where do you think your 2017 1st round pick would have been drafted? 11th? 12th?
This is like Orlando giving away its 1st round pick for a 4th round pick and someone from the waiver wire. That hurts a team. A lot. Their 1st round rookie pick this year with Jimmy Butler or without Jimmy Butler will be about the same. Who will it be? Okafur? KAT? Russel? Would you, or any other NBA GM take either of those guys over Jimmy Butler? Orlando isn't winning with Jimmy Butler anyway.
This severely hurts the talent level of a bottom 3 worst team in the league.
This is EXACTLY why the trade committee is here.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Aug 2, 2015 19:20:53 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 19:20:53 GMT -5
Jimmy butler was taken as the 20th overall player, Khris Middleton the 98th overall player. How off do you think those spots are? Where do you think your 2017 1st round pick would have been drafted? 11th? 12th? This is like Orlando giving away its 1st round pick for a 4th round pick and someone from the waiver wire. That hurts a team. A lot. Their 1st round rookie pick this year with Jimmy Butler or without Jimmy Butler will be about the same. Who will it be? Okafur? KAT? Russel? Would you, or any other NBA GM take either of those guys over Jimmy Butler? Orlando isn't winning with Jimmy Butler anyway. This severely hurts the talent level of a bottom 3 worst team in the league. This is EXACTLY why the trade committee is here. This isn't an "Okafor/KAT for Jimmy Butler" trade, in any way shape or form. His first isn't going anywhere, and he's adding a player that has the potential to jump to Butler's level and an extra first rounder in 2017. Remaining adamant that this trade makes his team worse is supported by very little. If Middleton reaches his potential, he'll have turned Jimmy Butler and OkaKAT into a player near equivalent to Butler, OkaKAT, and a mid-level first round pick in 2017. If he doesn't reach his potential, he'll still get close enough that Middleton plus a mid-first rounder will almost certainly make his team equal or better, and younger, for less money. That means by 2019 his team will be stacked with at least 4 young studs and his future will be still be incredibly bright. I guess I'm still the only one here who sees Middleton's stats and feels like he's definitely going to be a star, so differing opinions aren't entirely surprising, but still... I guess let's let the other TC members finish voting and if we need to we'll go back to the drawing board.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Aug 2, 2015 19:24:14 GMT -5
Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 19:24:14 GMT -5
Jimmy butler was taken as the 20th overall player, Khris Middleton the 98th overall player. How off do you think those spots are? Where do you think your 2017 1st round pick would have been drafted? 11th? 12th? This is like Orlando giving away its 1st round pick for a 4th round pick and someone from the waiver wire. That hurts a team. A lot. Their 1st round rookie pick this year with Jimmy Butler or without Jimmy Butler will be about the same. Who will it be? Okafur? KAT? Russel? Would you, or any other NBA GM take either of those guys over Jimmy Butler? Orlando isn't winning with Jimmy Butler anyway. This severely hurts the talent level of a bottom 3 worst team in the league. This is EXACTLY why the trade committee is here. This isn't an "Okafor/KAT for Jimmy Butler" trade, in any way shape or form. His first isn't going anywhere, and he's adding a player that has the potential to jump to Butler's level and an extra first rounder in 2017. Remaining adamant that this trade makes his team worse is supported by very little. If Middleton reaches his potential, he'll have turned Jimmy Butler and OkaKAT into a player near equivalent to Butler, OkaKAT, and a mid-level first round pick in 2017. If he doesn't reach his potential, he'll still get close enough that Middleton plus a mid-first rounder will almost certainly make his team equal or better, and younger, for less money. That means by 2019 his team will be stacked with at least 4 young studs and his future will be still be incredibly bright. I guess I'm still the only one here who sees Middleton's stats and feels like he's definitely going to be a star, so differing opinions aren't entirely surprising, but still... I guess let's let the other TC members finish voting and if we need to we'll go back to the drawing board. I don't know what you're talking about. All I'm saying is he is getting 4th plus 12+ round value for 1st round value and in no way shape or form is that fair.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Aug 2, 2015 19:26:30 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 19:26:30 GMT -5
Also, 98th is early 4th round... Anyone drafted in the first five rounds was drafted to be a starter, and some of them were definitely going to fall farther than they should have, like Middleton. I honestly hadn't seen any of Middleton's stats or highlights or I would have drafted him sooner than that.
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billy
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Aug 2, 2015 19:28:57 GMT -5
Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 19:28:57 GMT -5
Also, 98th is early 4th round... You say 98th like he's a bottom-of-the-draft crap shoot, but anyone drafted in the first five rounds was drafted to be a starter, and some of them were definitely going to fall farther than they should have, like Middleton. I honestly hadn't seen any of Middleton's stats or highlights or I would have drafted him sooner than that. The whole point of the trade committee is to stop people from trading their 1st round picks for players that are valued way less. We did it multiple times for Sacramento, but you think Jimmy Butler is somehow way worse than Kawhi Leonard? I'm going to stop arguing now. Maybe orlando will even feel differently when realizing Jimmy butler is a RFA and they can match whatever he is offered and they are guaranteed him.
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Paul Pierce
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Aug 2, 2015 19:40:38 GMT -5
Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 2, 2015 19:40:38 GMT -5
This trade is awful for orlando. He can resign Butler who is amounts better than middleton. Dont get me wrong, Middleton can play but him and a late 1st is definetley not equal to a rising star in butler
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Steve Jobs
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Aug 2, 2015 19:45:18 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 19:45:18 GMT -5
I already believe Middleton probably could/should have been drafted as early as the 2nd round, THIS year, and it wouldn't have been weird. If he has anything even resembling a break out season next year, he'll 100% be worth several of the players taken in the 20-30 range this year. Saying Middleton+1st doesn't equal Butler just because of their respective positions in a fantasy draft is a really narrow-minded view point that's not acknowledging Middleton's potential combined with the fact that he was already drafted too low.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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OKC-ORL
Aug 2, 2015 19:47:19 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 19:47:19 GMT -5
Alright guys, enough is enough. I don't feel like arguing over it anymore either. Let's let the voting play out and move on.
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Reggie Miller
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Reggie Miller on Aug 2, 2015 19:53:34 GMT -5
I also reject... Both are RFA but Butler is an all star caliber.. on his state He can resign Butler but I get what he wants to do but should have added more than that..
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Aug 2, 2015 20:31:54 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 20:31:54 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
Any suggestions for what I'd need to add to make it acceptable?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 20:58:59 GMT -5
Thanks guys. Any suggestions for what I'd need to add to make it acceptable? I think that it could still be tied only 3 rejects so far? For me, you'd have to add another solid prospect to the mix, your 1st round picks of every year are all not very good and unlikely to produce an above average starter.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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OKC-ORL
Aug 2, 2015 21:02:31 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 21:02:31 GMT -5
Thanks guys. Any suggestions for what I'd need to add to make it acceptable? I think that it could still be tied only 3 rejects so far? For me, you'd have to add another solid prospect to the mix, your 1st round picks of every year are all not very good and unlikely to produce an above average starter. Would Middleton, Wroten, and my 2017 1st do it for you?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 2, 2015 21:06:15 GMT -5
I think that it could still be tied only 3 rejects so far? For me, you'd have to add another solid prospect to the mix, your 1st round picks of every year are all not very good and unlikely to produce an above average starter. Would Middleton, Wroten, and my 2017 1st do it for you? Not me
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Aug 2, 2015 21:10:19 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 2, 2015 21:10:19 GMT -5
A 22 year old that is about to be a starting point guard for Philly? Seems like a solid prospect... Aminu? He'll be a starter for Portland. I mean, if neither of those guys do it, you probably don't consider any of my prospects worth enough.
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