Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Aug 9, 2018 7:20:05 GMT -5
Portland trades
Demarcus Cousins $30,560,700 Clippers trades:Jacob Poeltl $2,216,500 $2,941,296 $4,026,634Alex Abrines $5,100,000 $5,100,000 $5,100,000Frank Mason $1,315,000 $1,615,000 $1,915,000Philly 2019 2nd round pick
Clippers take $21,929,200 extra salary, which they have room. Trade would be queued until the deadline after newly signed FAs are allowed to be traded.
Reasoning: Accept. I think this needs some explanation from my side, since for someone it might look like I'm selling Boogie for nothing.
This years FA is not yet fully over, but I'm already looking into next year. And my cap situation would be really bad. I get 10% penalty for being over the luxury tax and I need to re-sign Boogie, Klay and Porzingis (and most of my bench). Assuming Boogie come back close to his old self, all of them will be getting deals that will bring me over the hard cap and I would surely lose either Klay or Boogie. I was hoping CP3 would have taken a longer deal with bit of a discount in this FA. That would have allowed me to squeeze in everyone under the hard cap next year also. But since he hold-out until at least 1+1 max was offered, that plan became useless.
So it's bit dilemma. I could ride out this team for a year and hope that Boogie is back in full strength. Get hopefully one championship and accept that I lose him or Klay. Or I could trade one of them for salary relief, be possibly worse this year but better in long term. I think for me it makes sense to do the latter with all the uncertainty of Boogie's injury also.
Getting huge cap relief is important and in other hand I really like Poeltl, who is for me the main guy I'm getting here. I really liked how he looked in Toronto off the bench. He is never going to have even close to the offensive impact like Boogie, but I really like the defensive impact and potential especially in Spurs system where he should be able to thrive and become a good starter. I have enough scoring on the field, so more traditional center who brings great rebounding and rim protection should be a great fit to be our starting 5. I think he is more athletic than people think and has potential to be similar like Steven Adams in few years. Even if he doesn't develop too much, I would be happy to get the same player as he was in Toronto. I think that would still keep me as one of the favorites for championship.
Mason is also ok. Looked pretty good last season before injury, but summer league was disappointing. Let's see. He could turn into a decent backup still. Abrines is ok. Great shooter, still young. Let's hope he can get more time in OKC now that Melo is out of the way, so the contract start looking better.
Before someone says that I can get better guys for Boogie. Trust me, I have been looking every teams roster thinking if there is a deal I would like. Most of the times it comes down to:
a) I would need to take similar amount of money back, even if it would be getting better players than Clippers give here. Takes the point away from the whole salary/hard cap relief
b) Most team who have room would not be looking to compete and sign Boogie next year. Or they just didn't have young players I was that liking enough. c) I don't want to trade to teams that would make my own competition harder if Boogie comes back 100%
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 9:24:20 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 9, 2018 9:24:20 GMT -5
Wow resigned cousins just to stab him in the back ...
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 9, 2018 9:35:44 GMT -5
This gotta be queued the til Dec 15. Gonna be hard for cousins to wanna stay in Lac if he only gets him to play like 15-20 games
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 9, 2018 10:15:17 GMT -5
He could’ve played next to AD on a good team smdh
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Post by Gregg Popovich on Aug 9, 2018 10:15:50 GMT -5
Accept. I wanted to sign a super star anyway and me getting DMC this year helps.
He's injured and when/if he comes back from injury he'll prove himself. I don't really need him back asap which is another reason why I accepted this trade. He can take his time recuperating
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 10:47:53 GMT -5
Reject This is not enough value for DmC even if he's injured if we didn't let Ron get the Draymond trade and some of the other trades have not gone down because of value this is definitely rejectable I understand Ted's reasoning but this cannot be allowed this is not equal value plain and simple
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 9, 2018 11:14:55 GMT -5
Reject This is not enough value for DmC even if he's injured if we didn't let Ron get the Draymond trade and some of the other traits of gone down because of value this is definitely rejectable I understand Ted's reasoning but this cannot be allowed this is not equal value plain and simple In fairness, there are some notable differences between the two: 1) Draymond isn't on the mend from a ruptured achilles tendon 2) Draymond's contract is super cheap (plus a team option next year) vs. DMC on a one year max that he may not be worth this year 3) Jakob Poeltl is in all likelihood about to take over a long-term starting center job with the Spurs at age 22 while Pat Bev just turned 30 and was significantly less two-way impactful even in his prime. 4) Even in the revised version, Abrines+Frank Mason+Philly 2nd is dramatically more valuable than PHX 19 2nd+HOU 21 1st-TLC. 5) Trading Draymond was largely a factor of aiming to get Kawhi (which he did) but could have been a deciding factor in Kawhi NOT coming and would have left LA with essentially Gobert + nothing 6) Portland after DMC will still have: At least 1 year of CP3, At least 1 year of Klay, At least 2 years of DeRozan, long term team control of Porzingis and Kris Dunn, and some decent depth who would probably be happy to re-sign even if most of the team left in FA. Not necessarily saying that I see this as acceptable vs. the LA trade being rejectable. The value is in the eyes of Theo and Yoshi... both sides have obvious pros and obvious cons. Boogie would have been infinitely more valuable prior to the injury, but until he plays again that value is a pretty big question mark.
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Aug 9, 2018 11:46:19 GMT -5
accept huge question marks on DMC after the achilles injury (precedence says he wont ever be the same).
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Post by Ron Artest(1x Champ) on Aug 9, 2018 11:56:21 GMT -5
Reject This is not enough value for DmC even if he's injured if we didn't let Ron get the Draymond trade and some of the other traits of gone down because of value this is definitely rejectable I understand Ted's reasoning but this cannot be allowed this is not equal value plain and simple In fairness, there are some notable differences between the two: 1) Draymond isn't on the mend from a ruptured achilles tendon 2) Draymond's contract is super cheap (plus a team option next year) vs. DMC on a one year max that he may not be worth this year 3) Jakob Poeltl is in all likelihood about to take over a long-term starting center job with the Spurs at age 22 while Pat Bev just turned 30 and was significantly less two-way impactful even in his prime. 4) Even in the revised version, Abrines+Frank Mason+Philly 2nd is dramatically more valuable than PHX 19 2nd+HOU 21 1st-TLC. 5) Trading Draymond was largely a factor of aiming to get Kawhi (which he did) but could have been a deciding factor in Kawhi NOT coming and would have left LA with essentially Gobert + nothing 6) Portland after DMC will still have: At least 1 year of CP3, At least 1 year of Klay, At least 2 years of DeRozan, long term team control of Porzingis and Kris Dunn, and some decent depth who would probably be happy to re-sign even if most of the team left in FA. Not necessarily saying that I see this as acceptable vs. the LA trade being rejectable. The value is in the eyes of Theo and Yoshi... both sides have obvious pros and obvious cons. Boogie would have been infinitely more valuable prior to the injury, but until he plays again that value is a pretty big question mark. I concur which is why I accept this trade
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 9, 2018 12:25:34 GMT -5
I accept.
Largely agree with Steve, but to add my own reasoning--
LAC is in a deep hole, they need to do whatever they can to get SOMETHING going, so taking a risk on a discount star coming off an injury is a great move for them. If he doesn't pan out, it was still probably worth it, and he's not on the hook long term.
Biggest difference between this trade and the LAL trade imo is that POR here is giving up such a small piece of what makes his team good. Boogie is what, his fourth, fifth best asset right now? Whereas draymond was not only LAL's best asset, but losing him would have made the team significantly worse. POR, even if he loses some talent, is still a very good team. Additionally, POR is doing this trade so that he can keep his team together, whereas LAL was giving Draymond up for little value (Huge loss) for a CHANCE to sign Kawhi.
Not to mention--the fact that he ended up being able to sign Kawhi WITHOUT trading draymond I think is proof that that trade was right to be rejected. LAL, if that trade went through and Kawhi didn't sign, would have been Gobert on an island. POR, if this trade goes through still has Klay, Zinger, CP3, Dunn, Derozan, ect...
C I R C U M S T A N C E S
Anyway, smart forward thinking move by Duncan, good risk to take for Yoshi. I accept.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 12:42:29 GMT -5
You guys have changed my mind with your insight Accept
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Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Aug 9, 2018 15:20:58 GMT -5
for some reason LAC cap space is now less than before. I know that Gallinari was added, but I checked that after Gallo there should have been still enough to take in DMC. I guess some other signing was added also just today?
Anyways. to match I think I need to take also couple of those deadmoney one year min contracts that LAC also has. Shouldn't change anyones vote I assume
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White Mamba
Milwaukee Bucks
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Post by White Mamba on Aug 9, 2018 16:08:15 GMT -5
I'll accept. This is a disastrous move for Portland, he loses one of the game's best centers for a bunch of bench players.
That said boogie is damaged goods and maybe he never recovers. No one can be sure.
Great move by the clippers
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 9, 2018 16:31:29 GMT -5
for some reason LAC cap space is now less than before. I know that Gallinari was added, but I checked that after Gallo there should have been still enough to take in DMC. I guess some other signing was added also just today? Anyways. to match I think I need to take also couple of those deadmoney one year min contracts that LAC also has. Shouldn't change anyones vote I assume Whoa whoa whoa... Boogie is one thing but an EXPIRING MINIMUM CONTRACT??? reject. (Kidding)
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 9, 2018 16:42:19 GMT -5
I'll accept. This is a disastrous move for Portland, he loses one of the game's best centers for a bunch of bench players. That said boogie is damaged goods and maybe he never recovers. No one can be sure. Great move by the clippers Really smart move by Portland. Poeltl isn’t Boogie, but he’s young with a lot of years of real team control and probably will be a baseline solid starter in SAS. He gets himself off of a lot of cash (both now and when trying to re-sign him while reloading with youth and the only real loss is a Boogie that may never get back to as good as he was before.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 17:15:50 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 9, 2018 17:15:50 GMT -5
I'm gonna reject, I don't think cousins will resign with LAC plus there's no bird rights. Poeltl is a legit offensive prospect and I don't like this trade from both sides. I lean Por though for who wins this deal
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 17:44:23 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 9, 2018 17:44:23 GMT -5
I'm gonna reject, I don't think cousins will resign with LAC plus there's no bird rights. Poeltl is a legit offensive prospect and I don't like this trade from both sides. I lean Por though for who wins this deal Agreed, but I don’t think it’s rejectable.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 17:47:54 GMT -5
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 9, 2018 17:47:54 GMT -5
I'm gonna reject, I don't think cousins will resign with LAC plus there's no bird rights. Poeltl is a legit offensive prospect and I don't like this trade from both sides. I lean Por though for who wins this deal Agreed, but I don’t think it’s rejectable. I guess I see your point, it's very close imo it took me the whole day to come to a decision. Still gonna keep my reject but this trades gonna get accepted though.
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 18:14:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 18:14:49 GMT -5
Now im confuzed what dead contracts does he have to take back im back to undecided now i need to know the dead contracts guys
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 18:38:04 GMT -5
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Post by Ron Artest(1x Champ) on Aug 9, 2018 18:38:04 GMT -5
Now im confuzed what dead contracts does he have to take back im back to undecided now i need to know the dead contracts guys well they’re ‘dead contracts’ they shouldn’t factor into your decision. I’m actually re analyzing this myself. This move makes more sense for the Blazers than it does the Clippers. There is a chance Cousins won’t resign, and the clippers are giving up a potentially very good asset. I’m not rejecting, but I’m rescinding my accept before this trade goes through!
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 18:39:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 18:39:24 GMT -5
Yea i have to reanalyze this as well so im back to neutral will make my vote soon
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Walt Frazier
Sacramento Kings
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Post by Walt Frazier on Aug 9, 2018 18:41:04 GMT -5
I'm going to accept. It's very circumstantial, this trade in a vacuum is probably not enough for a healthy Cousins, at all. But, he's not healthy, and, this team has cap worries to think about, so it evens out quite a lot.
Accept.
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Post by Ron Artest(1x Champ) on Aug 9, 2018 18:47:23 GMT -5
Come to think about it, trading assets for one year(realistically a few months) of Cousins whose coming off an Achilles injury makes little sense. Maybe if the Clippers were getting another asset in return I’d be on board, but this is borderline trade rape. Cousins won’t help the Clippers roster in any shape or form.. The west is a deep conference, and to me this is essentially a team adding and having to pay a guy for a year, that in all likelihood won’t resign, while giving up assets to do so. Long story short, this trade benefits the Blazers, where as the Clippers gain nothing from it. I think we must not downplay Cousins injury, it’s an Achilles, and realistically he won’t be back on the court until January/February, and even when he does return he’s gonna have a minutes limit. Reject for me on second consideration.
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 19:02:35 GMT -5
Post by Tracy McGrady on Aug 9, 2018 19:02:35 GMT -5
Accept, this might be favorable for me this coming season. I and Portland are in the same conference.
Kidding aside, again what is important is the intentions of the GMs which I think are clear.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 9, 2018 19:18:33 GMT -5
Come to think about it, trading assets for one year(realistically a few months) of Cousins whose coming off an Achilles injury makes little sense. Maybe if the Clippers were getting another asset in return I’d be on board, but this is borderline trade rape. Cousins won’t help the Clippers roster in any shape or form.. The west is a deep conference, and to me this is essentially a team adding and having to pay a guy for a year, that in all likelihood won’t resign, while giving up assets to do so. Long story short, this trade benefits the Blazers, where as the Clippers gain nothing from it. I think we must not downplay Cousins injury, it’s an Achilles, and realistically he won’t be back on the court until January/February, and even when he does return he’s gonna have a minutes limit. Reject for me on second consideration. Consider that 1) Cousins could easily come back at 75-90% of his previous production and still be worth more than this trade gives Portland 2) LAC has his bird rights, and for a player coming off an Achilles injury, getting a 5 year offer will most likely be enough to lock him in thanks to future injury concerns. I think it’s fair to be skeptical, but it’s very difficult for me to pretend that the risks for either side outweigh the benefits of the other.
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 19:20:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 19:20:45 GMT -5
But clippers dont have his bird rights correct?
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 19:26:35 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 9, 2018 19:26:35 GMT -5
But clippers dont have his bird rights correct? If I’m not mistaken, Portland traded for him (came with BRs), and now is trading him to LA with those same BRs. BRs are only lost if a player signs with a new team in Free Agency.
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 19:41:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 19:41:08 GMT -5
I need to know 100% if he comes with birds! That makes a difference in my voting! Im already leading to reject bc i believe dmc will come back strong maybe not 100 but pretty close and if clippers lose him in free agency his team has nothing! Its already gutted imo and that would be franchise ruining!
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 19:46:51 GMT -5
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Post by Ron Artest(1x Champ) on Aug 9, 2018 19:46:51 GMT -5
Come to think about it, trading assets for one year(realistically a few months) of Cousins whose coming off an Achilles injury makes little sense. Maybe if the Clippers were getting another asset in return I’d be on board, but this is borderline trade rape. Cousins won’t help the Clippers roster in any shape or form.. The west is a deep conference, and to me this is essentially a team adding and having to pay a guy for a year, that in all likelihood won’t resign, while giving up assets to do so. Long story short, this trade benefits the Blazers, where as the Clippers gain nothing from it. I think we must not downplay Cousins injury, it’s an Achilles, and realistically he won’t be back on the court until January/February, and even when he does return he’s gonna have a minutes limit. Reject for me on second consideration. Consider that 1) Cousins could easily come back at 75-90% of his previous production and still be worth more than this trade gives Portland 2) LAC has his bird rights, and for a player coming off an Achilles injury, getting a 5 year offer will most likely be enough to lock him in thanks to future injury concerns. I think it’s fair to be skeptical, but it’s very difficult for me to pretend that the risks for either side outweigh the benefits of the other. 1. Wishful thinking, More often than not, Achilles injuries usually are pretty career hampering. 2. Valid point, but someone pointed out Clippers didn’t have BR, if he does, then disregard my entire sentiments in regards to rejecting!
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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POR-LAC
Aug 9, 2018 19:55:01 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 9, 2018 19:55:01 GMT -5
Consider that 1) Cousins could easily come back at 75-90% of his previous production and still be worth more than this trade gives Portland 2) LAC has his bird rights, and for a player coming off an Achilles injury, getting a 5 year offer will most likely be enough to lock him in thanks to future injury concerns. I think it’s fair to be skeptical, but it’s very difficult for me to pretend that the risks for either side outweigh the benefits of the other. 1. Wishful thinking, More often than not, Achilles injuries usually are pretty career hampering. 2. Valid point, but someone pointed out Clippers didn’t have BR, if he does, then disregard my entire sentiments in regards to rejecting! I’m 99.9% certain LAC will have his Bird Rights.
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