NBA all time fantasy draft voting - Round 2

[Theodore Duncan]

Lets get voting for round 2. Choose the 4 teams (one from each match-up) in the poll that would win a 7-game series in neutral arena.

Match-ups for the round are:

Match-up #1

Team 2 - @xavier0717
1. LeBron James
2. Patrick Ewing
3. Ray Allen
4. Grant Hill
5. Penny Hardaway
6. Tim Hardaway
7. Shawn Kemp
8. Bob mcAdoo
9. Maurice cheeks
10. Sam cassell

vs

Team 4 - DJ Jazzy Jeff
1. Kevin Durant
2. Russel Westbrook
3. Kevin McHale
4. Derrick Rose
5. Kristaps Porzingis
6. DeMar DeRozan
7. Yao Ming
8. Mark Aguirre
9. LaMarcus Aldridge
10. Michael Finley

Match-up #2

Team 8 - billy
1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Julius Erving
3. George Gervin
4. Chris Bosh
5. Tony Parker
6. Kyle Korver
7. Dave Cowens
8. Buck Williams
9. Bill Laimbeer
10. Kemba Walker

vs

Team 3 - Stuff The Magic Dragon
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dennis Rodman
3. Isiah Thomas
4. Pau Gasol
5. Paul George
6. Bob Lanier
7. Adrian Dantley
8. Fat Lever
9. Blake Griffin

10. Jason Richardson

Match-up #3

Team 10 - Theodore Duncan
1. Magic Johnson
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Tracy McGrady
4. Chris Webber
5. Alonzo Mourning
6. Damian Lillard
7. Andrei Kirilenko
8. Shane Battier
9. Joakim Noah
10. Drazen Petrovic

vs

Team 1 - Allan Houston
1. Michael Jordan
2. Gary Payton
3. Reggie Miller
4. Dikembe Mutombo
5. Draymond Green
6. Marcus Camby
7. Deron Williams
8. Rashard Lewis
9. Glen Rice
10. Joe Johnson

Match-up #4

Team 11 - Ron Artest(1x Champ)
1. Steph Curry
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Klay Thompson
4. Joel Embiid
5. Rasheed Wallace
6. Michael Cooper
7. Danny Green
8. Kevin Johnson
9. Paul Millsap
10. Steven Adams

vs

Team 9 - Jackie Kong
1. Tim Duncan
2. Scottie Pippen
3. Manu Ginobili
4. Joe Dumars
5. Sidney Moncrief
6. Al Horford
7. Andre Iguodala
8. Marc Gasol
9. Detlef Schrempf
10. Brent Barry


I think it’s good if both GM’s give some reasoning of how they have visioned their team to play. Starting 5 and tactics. If they are gonna run&gun, lockdown defense, slow the pace and pound it inside every time, etc..
Specifically if you have some old legends in the team, might be a good idea to let others know why those players are so awesome. Not everyone knows that well the players from 70s and 80s and you might lose some votes if people don’t know your players strengths.

Obviously everyone thinks their team is the best to win it all, so there will be for sure disappointments. Keep it civilized when arguing. Obviously everyone can and should say their opinion about the matchup. Not just the GM’s whose teams are in question. Also the D720 GM’s who where not drafting a team can vote and participate in discussion.

[Theodore Duncan]

This is a tough matchup but I think I have here a huge advantage by having much more diverse offense with a lot of guys who can create for themselves or others. All starts with versatility of Magic. I can play him in any of the positions 1-5 and he will create matchup problems smaller guards on the post, or if play him as point forward/center the bigger guys have no chance in the perimeter.

For example a semi small-ball lineups with Magic as PF and Webber as Center the can be ridiculous amounts of scoring on the field and also have the athleticism and size to switch everything in defense.

Also in normal bigger lineups I can always have a DPOY level defensive anchor on the field with either Mourning or Noah. Kirilenko was one of the most versatile wing defenders ever. He led one year NBA in blocks when starting as SF, in a time when there was still a lot of good defensive centers. Shane Battier is also a great wing defender. DWade is possibly the best shot blocking guard of all time. And although T-Mac and Webber are more know for their offense, the have the athleticism to defend well any match ups.

Strategy will be to run fast break anytime there is a chance, since there this team will be unstoppable with Magic running the show.. And in half court offense use a lot of ball movement, off-ball actions, hand-offs to create switches and and then attack the matchups where there is advantage. Petrovic, Dame, T-Mac, Battier are the best 3-point shooters to create spacing, but you can’t really leave someone like Wade also open because they will find a way to take advantage by off-ball movement.

Matchups.

Magic > Payton (GP wins in defense, but he can’t match up with the best PG of all time)
Wade < Jordan (no one can beat Jordan, but having a top3 all time SG to put against him is as close as you can get
T-Mac > Miller (T-mac has more diverse offensive game and is better defender)
Webber > Dray (Dray advantage in defense but C-Webb is not a bad defender himself and much bigger threat to score in offense. Also a great passer like Dray)
Alonzo > Mutombo (Alonzo is also one of the best shot blockers of all time so defense is pretty even. In offense Zo is reliable 20+ scorer, who can really punish mismatches in the post better than Mount Mutombo)

Bench mob: I think I have better defense with Noah, Kirilenko and Battier. And guys who can create for themselves and for others in Dame and Petro.

Allan’s team has also good versatile guys, but I think they will have hard time creating good shots continuously other than via Jordan. I think in general I would let Jordan do his thing. Play him 1-on-1 and make beat me himself and keep everyone else tightly guarded. Even if he scores 50+ there just isn’t enough offensive weapons to keep up with the scoring I can do.

[Stuff The Magic Dragon]

Hakeem Olajuwon will be guarded by Rodman
Julius Erving will be guarded by Mamba/PG
George Gervin will be guarded by Mamba/PG
Chris Bosh will be guarded by Pau
Tony Parker will be guarded by Zeke
tough matchup. both team has enough firepower but I'm a better defensive team and that will likely play out to my advantage here

Kyle Korver will be guarded by J Rich
Dave Cowens will be guarded by Lanier
Buck Williams will be guarded by Griffin
Bill Laimbeer will be guarded by Dantley
kemba Walker will be guarded by Lever
his 2nd unit lacks spacing and will likely be ran over by my 2nd unit's athleticism

[Ron Artest(1x Champ)]

Kong probably was my favorite team of all the ones drafted. With that being said. I think this is a wash in real life, although voting probably will end up the opposite.

Offensively I’m running and gunning. I’d go to my small ball lineup quite often. Lots of off ball movement, lots of screens and set plays, I feel like all teams that can’t consistently shoot it from range would struggle to keep up with our scoring pace. Kong has lock down defenders, but I have players that are great at shooting with or without a hand in their face. Not only that but I think we could get a few of those guys in foul trouble fairly quick.

Defensively I’d double Tim Duncan in the post quite often, and I’d stick Kawhi on Manu as he’d be their primary and ONLY ball handler. Generally speaking I like this matchup better for us than the last one because we aren’t totally outclassed as far as athleticism, and I wouldn’t have to hide Curry considering Kong doesn’t have a true point guard. Finally, I think the only player we’d struggle to contain on a consistent basis is Tim Duncan. Other than Timmy, Kong wouldn’t have a single player that could consistently hurt us offensively, and help keep up with our scoring pace.

[Allan Houston]

How long is voting open for? I got David Robinson's wedding this weekend and won't have time to write up a post.

[Theodore Duncan]

Oct 12, 2018 22:38:04 GMT -5 Allan Houston said:

How long is voting open for? I got David Robinson's wedding this weekend and won't have time to write up a post.

No worries, it's not in a rush. Let's try to get 10+ votes on each matchup again

[DJ Jazzy Jeff]

There's no way my team loses to Nick's rag tag group!!

[Deleted]

My team would beat all the teams easily! Its not even close with my guys in their prime!
My team is athletic, can switch and play multiple positions on d, we can shoot, and we have LeBron!
Good luck

[Theodore Duncan]

Bump..let's get more votes

I don't understand how people are so high on Allan's team. No way it could beat mine. It's full of defensive specialists and very good roleplayers and Jordan. Miller/Rice/Lewis all need someone to get them to ball to scoring positions. Payton is a good point guard but he is not known for his passing. You get zero offense out of the centers Mutombo and Camby. Dray is good passer in the Warriors but I think he would struggle in offense without having Curry/KD/Klay to provide the space, and again hardly any scoring. Iso-Joe can get buckets for himself but he is not creating the offense for others. I think basically Allan's team is completely relying on Jordan on offense. To beat me he would need to average 50+ points with 15assist, and I don't think even the GOAT could pull that off.

Maybe they are 10 points better than me in defense.. but I think my offensive advantage would be able to beat that easily. I got at least 4 guys who can put up 30+ points every night even without anyone creating for them (Wade/T-Mac/Dame/Webber), but with best PG of all time keeping the offense running it would be absolutely nuts to stop these guys. And I'm not that bad in defense either as I already wrote earlier.

[Allan Houston]

Oct 16, 2018 13:26:13 GMT -5 Theodore Duncan said:

Bump..let's get more votes

I don't understand how people are so high on Allan's team. No way it could beat mine. It's full of defensive specialists and very good roleplayers and Jordan. Miller/Rice/Lewis all need someone to get them to ball to scoring positions. Payton is a good point guard but he is not known for his passing. You get zero offense out of the centers Mutombo and Camby. Dray is good passer in the Warriors but I think he would struggle in offense without having Curry/KD/Klay to provide the space, and again hardly any scoring. Iso-Joe can get buckets for himself but he is not creating the offense for others. I think basically Allan's team is completely relying on Jordan on offense. To beat me he would need to average 50+ points with 15assist, and I don't think even the GOAT could pull that off.

Maybe they are 10 points better than me in defense.. but I think my offensive advantage would be able to beat that easily. I got at least 4 guys who can put up 30+ points every night even without anyone creating for them (Wade/T-Mac/Dame/Webber), but with best PG of all time keeping the offense running it would be absolutely nuts to stop these guys. And I'm not that bad in defense either as I already wrote earlier.

This is nonsense. You're right to point that my team is great at defense, but it's also incredible offensively.

First of all, I have Michael Jordan, the GOAT. That's sufficient for a great offense. Secondly, many of those "role-players," many of whom happen to be in the Hall of Fame, are incredible offensive talents.

Reggie Miller isn't just an off-ball shooter. The Pacers offense, which arguably gave Jordan his hardest challenge during his 90s playoff runs, ran through Miller. The same could be said for Rice, minus the playoff success.

Rim-runners are incredibly valuable offensive pieces. Vertical spacing is also a thing. Mutombo consistently had a well-above TS%, including a league leading .621 in 99-00. 

Gary Payton may not be known for passing, but was still a very good one. He led the league in 99-00. He has a career 31.9 AST%, with a high of 41.3. That's great! And Deron has a career 39.5%!

We have plenty of players to provide space for our passers. Reggie is a top 5 all-time shooter. Rice is a career 40% shooter. Rashard 38%. Payton, Dray, Deron, Joe are all respectable shooters who have to be guarded. Our only "bad" shooters are the rim-runners (see vertical spacing) and the GOAT. (And "Iso-Joe can get buckets" directly contradicts "completely relying on Jordan on offense" in your own words)

Meanwhile, your team has much larger flaws. You only have 3 shooters, one of whom is the archetypical role player and another only played 4 seasons. They're all on your bench. Your starters have serious spacing issues.   Your back court can't defend and will be torn apart by my back court. 

And let's not ignore how insanely good my defense is. You have some capable back court scorers. Good luck getting past Payton and MJ, arguably the greatest defenders ever at their respective decision. If you do, you're met at the rim by the Mutombo/Camby pair, sporting together 8x DPOYs, 10x All-Defense, 7x BLK leaders. Not to mention Draymond, one of the best team defensive minds ever.

[Theodore Duncan]

Oct 16, 2018 14:59:58 GMT -5 Allan Houston said:

Meanwhile, your team has much larger flaws. You only have 3 shooters, one of whom is the archetypical role player and another only played 4 seasons. They're all on your bench. Your starters have serious spacing issues.   Your back court can't defend and will be torn apart by my back court. 

Assuming that the three shooters you are talking here are Lillard, Petrovic and Battier.  Can't believe how much disrespect this is to Wade, T-Mac, Webber and Magic. Even if the game is now changing to the Rocket's style of three's and layups, it's ridiculous to say that great mid-range shooters don't add any spacing.

Someone like Wade is one the best all time scorers even without a strong three point shot. He can for sure knock down a wide open three and is deadly from just inside three point line which forces someone to guard him on the perimeter anyways.

Magic was not taking a lot of three but go ask an Celtics fan from the 80s if they would let him open at the three. He still needed to be guarded there.

C-Webb is one of the pioneers of strech-4, he did not take a lot of threes (because those where the days then) but was deadly from the long mid-range which forced the big guys to come out there to guard him. And then he could beat then any PF or C off the dribble.

Watch this video and then tell me that T-Mac was not a shooter...In his prime he is right there with ANY shooting guard to score from anywhere in the court.

Kirilenko is also a good enough shooter (comparable to Dray) for strech-4 to provide spacing from the bench. And he can also guard pretty much 1-5 on switches.

And as I said.. Jordan will score against this back court for sure. But that is the tactic. Let him go 1-on-1 and lockdown everyone else. I have athletic smart team defenders in every positions who can switch all the off-ball screens to make sure there is no one to pass to.

Of course I would not be going against GP or MJ 1-on-1, since there is always a mismatch against Reggie Miller. He is way below average defender and would not be able to do anything against any of Magic,Wade or T-Mac. That is way bigger mismatch in my favor than for example T-Mac defending MJ is.

[Theodore Duncan]

Since there are over 10 votes for each matchup I think we start to have enough votes to move forward to semifinals. Closing the voting in around 24 hours.

Last chance to vote, if you haven't yet! hint hint.. vote me ;)

[Ron Artest(1x Champ)]

😊

[Theodore Duncan]

Voting has been closed. Congrats @xavier0717 Stuff The Magic Dragon Allan Houston and Jackie Kong for advancing to semifinals

New voting thread coming up. Stay tuned