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OKC-MIN
Aug 20, 2015 7:10:55 GMT -5
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billy likes this
Post by John Stockton on Aug 20, 2015 7:10:55 GMT -5
im actually going to accept. while i really think okc is winning this trade here, hes throwing all he can at MIN for this trade and i think its close enough.
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OKC-MIN
Aug 20, 2015 20:33:27 GMT -5
Post by Milt Newton on Aug 20, 2015 20:33:27 GMT -5
Vote so far is 2-3
One reject, or two accepts are needed to resolve the deal.
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Post by Colin Loftin on Aug 22, 2015 19:14:54 GMT -5
I am a huge fan of Draymond Green, I think he's a great defender and allows Golden State to do things that dramatically improve the play of that team. Obviously with the RFA status, the Timberwolves get to keep him. I don't think Tony Wroten is all that good. I think he puts up inflated per-game numbers for the 76ers and is a piss-poor three point shooter. His overall field goal percentage only looks somewhat decent because he takes 50% of his shots from within 3 feet. The 1st round draft pick for a team with a core of DMC, Middleton, and Batum seems unlikely to fall within the lottery, or if so, at the end of it. I don't know that the 2nd round adds that much value. As for Thanasis, he might end up being a decent player, although the fact that he couldn't get brought up by the Knicks from the D-League doesn't give me a great deal of confidence. He's older than Giannis and it is my understanding that he might have been picked up because of the name rather than his individual skills. There are some interesting pieces in there, with Green being the big one, he's the only one I'd bet on being of much value in a few years.
However, I think the issue really comes down to whether or not Gasol ends up signing with the Timberwolves in free agency this offseason. With the other guys in the trade, being able to sign Gasol likely makes it a pretty fair trade. However, if he signs elsewhere then it is an absolute disaster for the Timberwolves.
I read through this thread and the thread from D5 about Gasol's free agency to try and get a sense of how the free agency might work, and the conclusion I came to is that it doesn't sound like loyalty is going to be a huge factor. And even if it does factor in some, I don't know that 30 games or so would make a large difference in how they feel about signing with a team. As such, if the Timberwolves are trading for him but aren't doing it to make a push for the championship, and will have the same chance as everyone else to sign him this offseason, then his value drops dramatically. I think he's a truly great player on both sides of the ball, but the possibility of it turning into a 30 game rental for a team without championship hopes severely decreases his value in this trade.
I vote to reject.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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OKC-MIN
Aug 22, 2015 20:58:50 GMT -5
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billy likes this
Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 22, 2015 20:58:50 GMT -5
For the record, I think the way free agency is handled in D5 has some flaws and clearly has the potential to create questionable moves and excessive drama. As a Player Agent, one of the things I hope can happen with this league is learning from the experience of the old leagues and utilizing that knowledge to make things even smoother and more realistic.
We've had talks about ways to make the D720 free agency a fairer and more reliable system, as well as how to minimize the occurrence of situations like what happened with Gasol over in D5.
The main argument against this trade is Gasol leaving, and part of that whole paranoia is that D5 Gasol left his team and the TC is using that to frame the likelihood of Gasol staying with this new team after the trade. But I think if our free agency system here in D720 evolves positively from D5's and works the way it should, we should be ignoring D5's scandal and focusing on the real question: Is Marc Gasol going to want to re-sign with a team built around long-term success with a very stable foundation of a 2015 lottery pick, Draymond Green, Marcus Smart, Tyreke Evans, Tony Wroten, Doug McDermott, Otto Porter, Mitch McGary, and Alex Len? Not to mention, my 1st round pick as well as all of his own in that span, would be almost certain to add, at worst, one or two more solid players to that team. I feel like discounting Gasol's desire to sign a 5-year deal with the team listed above, a team we're all likely to consider stacked with good talent by year 3 or 4 of that 5-year deal, would be crazy. If I were a player like Marc, loyalty aside, that's a strong team that can easily be a contender and I wouldn't hesitate to consider them among the best options as a place to chase a title and eventually retire.
With all that said, I respect the decision and the argument. Not to sound over-dramatic here, but if everyone else is determined to implement a system where a guy like Marc Gasol immediately jets from a team that has a good chance to be great over the next 5 or 6 years while his career winds down to "chase titles" with another team that maybe has more attractive talent over the next 2 or 3 years, I'm just going to have to keep fighting to improve that system until it happens.
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billy
Miami Heat
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OKC-MIN
Aug 22, 2015 21:09:35 GMT -5
Post by billy on Aug 22, 2015 21:09:35 GMT -5
I secretly wish it had gone to a league wide vote would've liked to hear from everyone :D
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OKC-MIN
Aug 23, 2015 10:38:15 GMT -5
Post by Colin Loftin on Aug 23, 2015 10:38:15 GMT -5
All fair points Steve. I can't speak for everyone else, but I was mostly looking in the D5 thread and other discussions here to see if loyalty was going to be a large factor in a player signing back with a team. I didn't see any indications of this being true. And I agree that the Timberwolves might be a desirable destination for Gasol, they have lots of young prospects. But young guys are more likely to flame out or become role players than All-Stars. So while, yes the young players for the Timberwolves might be attractive, I don't know that he is any more likely to sign there because of them. There are other teams that could sign him, that are better set up to win now and possibly well into the next 4 years. I didn't see them gaining any significant edge over another team which is what it all boiled down to, at least for me. If loyalty does not make a big difference, then I see them having about the same chance of signing him as anyone else, and that means the very real and likely possibility of it turning into a rental. Just a bit more of my reasoning
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Post by Kylo Ren on Aug 23, 2015 14:35:55 GMT -5
Ha, this is deja vu for me! ;) In fact, I joined this league after a controversy in another league surrounding the signing of Marc. Basically, I had a core of Westbrook, Lillard, Marc Gasol, and enough cap space to sign another big name player. I thought Gasol would take a discount since I owned him for two years, though I did not possess his bird rights, for the same reasons Steve Jobs said. Some people say I overreacted but I still don't think so and, for the record, do not regret my decision in the slightest.
Minny, DO NOT do this trade. The player agent thing is such a cluster fuck and a mess that you should listen to the commish if he's telling you you cannot resign him. Seattle, this constitutes the reason I will not trade for Conley; the most important thing in these leagues is the ownership of bird rights rather than the player's skill level. Besides, a lot of people LOVE Cousins...the T-wolves could get so much more for him.
PS. I didn't click the second page before posting, but I am glad to see people are taking my situation as precedent. Basically, I would NEVER trade for a good player without his BRs.
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