Red Auerbach
Boston Celtics
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Post by Red Auerbach on Aug 22, 2015 11:58:24 GMT -5
Boston Celtics Trade: PG 67 Isaiah Thomas $7,238,606 $6,912,869 $6,587,131 $6,261,394 C 60 Steven Adams $2,184,960 $2,279,040 $3,140,517 $4,321,351 SG 43 Wayne Ellington $1,063,384 Before $64,990,177 Sent $10,486,950 Received $13,086,250 After $67,589,477
Oklahoma City Thunder Trade: GF 68 Nicolas Batum $11,390,500 $11,860,750 FC 63 Amar'e Stoudemire $485,670 PG 60 Tony Wroten Jr. $1,210,080 $2,179,354 $3,201,471 Before $55,944,798 Sent $13,086,250 Received $10,486,950 After $53,345,498
$10,486,950 x 1.25% = $13,108,687
I accept this trade. Isaiah is on a great contract and is a scoring machine. Steven Adams is a true young center. Those are hard to come by. I hate to lose those two players. However, Wroten is on his rookie contract and is scoring just as well as Thomas and is 4 years younger. He may turn out to be the better player. Amare is a veteran big man who can stretch the floor for my team drawing a forward out of the lane for Kobe or Westbrook to drive. Batum is a defensive wing. With the scoring coming from Bryant and Westbrook, I needed someone to step up and play defense.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 22, 2015 12:32:55 GMT -5
I accept. Moving Batum will be a huge loss, as I basically built my team around him and Green, but I think the scoring of Isaiah Thomas will be an essential long term addition to the team. Adams is a guy that I like a lot long term, so I'm excited to have him on board even at the huge loss of Amar'e as my sixth man and Tony Wroten as a very important bench scorer.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 22, 2015 15:23:53 GMT -5
This trade is invalid because the OKC MIN trade is still pending. Gonna lock this.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 22, 2015 19:37:35 GMT -5
Trade may now be voted on :)
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 23, 2015 0:08:28 GMT -5
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Post by John Stockton on Aug 23, 2015 0:28:22 GMT -5
Need salaries before and after for each team please
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Red Auerbach
Boston Celtics
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Post by Red Auerbach on Aug 23, 2015 0:44:52 GMT -5
Done.
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Post by John Stockton on Aug 23, 2015 0:56:03 GMT -5
i think this is a fairly even trade when you look at those players without contracts, but thomas is on a ridiculous deal that'll look like pennies when the cap is 100M in a few years and kiwi also has BR.
amare and batum are nice but for a team thats not going to make playoffs and over the cap? this doesnt make sense for them to give up this youth when theyre getting pieces they wont be able to utilize more than less than half a season.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 23, 2015 0:58:41 GMT -5
I accept. Good trade guys, gotta let these people improve their teams, even if those players arent BR players. a 2 year deal is different from a 30 day deal, bostons team could look great next year with batum and westbrook and FA additions
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 23, 2015 1:34:58 GMT -5
i think this is a fairly even trade when you look at those players without contracts, but thomas is on a ridiculous deal that'll look like pennies when the cap is 100M in a few years and kiwi also has BR. amare and batum are nice but for a team thats not going to make playoffs and over the cap? this doesnt make sense for them to give up this youth when theyre getting pieces they wont be able to utilize more than less than half a season. I think you must have missed that Batum has a second year on his contract, so Amar'e is really the only piece here that won't carry over to next year's team. And to me, the improvement he makes to his actual rotations by swapping his third-best scoring guard for a true SF that can contribute all over the floor, and who also allows Kobe to play his actual position at SG, will make up for any losses inherent in "youth" (which by the way, IT=25, Adams=22; batum=26, and wroten=22, that's not really giving up any youth at all). His starting 5, through the end of this season, goes from the guard-heavy Thomas/Westbrook/Kobe/Johnson/Kanter to a very well balanced Westbrook/Kobe/Batum/Amar'e/Kanter, so if he makes a push to bust into the playoffs I'm not gonna be overly amazed or anything. Amar'e is the only guy there that probably won't be back next season, but he'll have the chance to draft new players and his whole MLE to offer, so it wouldn't shock me at all to see this Celtic's team blossom into something just as, or more, special next season.
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Post by John Stockton on Aug 23, 2015 2:08:24 GMT -5
yeah, i misused the term youth there. regardless, issue with the contracts still remain. in my mind, thomas and adams are roughly equivalent to batum and wroten in terms of talent and age. however, when you bring in the contract into the equation, it heavily tilts the balance into OKC's favor.
batum is the best player involved here but adams is a solid young center and those are hard to come by in this league. wroten is decent but there are tons of guys in the league that can do what he can do; there aren't many centers that can do what kiwi can do.
stoudemire doesn't add anything to this trade for me as i dont see boston as a team likely to make the playoffs this year (even if does, hell get blown out first round by the raptors).
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 23, 2015 3:01:57 GMT -5
If your main problem here is not seeing him as a team likely to make the playoffs this year, I mean... 7 games back from 8th seed with 24 games left in the season seems daunting, but it's not like Atlanta or Washington with their "5-5 in the Last 10" records are making any seriously pushes to stand in his way. And he's only an extra half game back from the 7th seed. We'll hopefully have some more clarity on which team he could potentially face in the first round as the season winds down, but I honestly don't look at a starting five of Westbrook/Kobe/Batum/Amar'e/Kanter as a starting 5 that can't throw down with the best of them. And it makes his team so much more well-rounded that I absolutely think if he's going to have a shot to make the playoffs instead of floundering in the middle of the pack with two superstar guards that a trade like this is just about the only way to pull it off.
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Post by Colin Loftin on Aug 23, 2015 10:21:51 GMT -5
I like this. Boston gets a good player on D in Batum and a couple of bench guys to help balance their lineup. OKC gets some good younger players on nice contracts. Good trade guys, I accept.
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Post by John Stockton on Aug 23, 2015 16:27:06 GMT -5
i just think boston is making a lateral move while sacrificing their long term viability. long term contracts are obviously better and having thomas on that cheap contract with a BR is a bigger asset than batum imo. i reject
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Red Auerbach
Boston Celtics
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Post by Red Auerbach on Aug 23, 2015 16:46:07 GMT -5
Wroten will be one of the better young point guards to emerge. Thomas may have been on a good contract, but Wroten is still on his rookie contract. He plays for Philly now, but is putting up good numbers.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 23, 2015 17:22:10 GMT -5
i just think boston is making a lateral move while sacrificing their long term viability. long term contracts are obviously better and having thomas on that cheap contract with a BR is a bigger asset than batum imo. i reject For a team that wants to contend this year, it is quite literally impossible to make the argument that this is a lateral move - every player I'm offering is rated the same or higher than the comparable pieces being given up, as well as offering a 63 PF/C in exchange for nothing (43-rated Wayne Ellington), and the Celtics will be much stronger on the other end with upgrades at Small Forward and PF. Beyond this year, it might then be lateral but the team he'll be able to field will still be a far more effective line-up than having three ball-dominant scoring guards in the same lineup.
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Post by Kylo Ren on Aug 23, 2015 17:26:22 GMT -5
I would reject this in a heart beat.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 23, 2015 19:04:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I think this is a pretty rejectable trade. Boston is giving up an amazing contract in IT and a good player on a good deal in Adams, I think he should be getting more in return. I'm a blazer fan so I love Batum and I think he'll bounce back from last season but there's no guarantee, and then it's up to Wroten to get Red his value back, which seems unlikely.
I think Batum is very talented but he's historically an inconsistent role/glue guy, coming off a bad year onto an unstable team that might ask too much of him. If he has another bad season his stock is going to fall super fast, Lance Stephenson style. IT and Adams are pretty safe bets to at least hold steady, so I think OKC is cleaning up way too hard.
That's my two cents.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 23, 2015 19:06:37 GMT -5
Love the opinions from other GMs! let your voices be heard!
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Reggie Miller
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Reggie Miller on Aug 23, 2015 19:41:16 GMT -5
If you will look it player to player I think this is a good move to both teams.. Boston have Kobe,Westbrook and Thomas.. both 3 of them always wants the ball in there hands.. Boston is 7gb away to be on the 8th spot.. and I think Batum and Amare can help them.. Westbrook,Kobe,Batum,Amare,Kanter is a very good starting 5.. Wroten will be their 6th man so they could make a push to the playoffs.. all of them will be back next year except Amare so they will also have a good run next year..
The OKC will lose 2 of their PG making Wroten their starting PG next year.. although he is a good PG he is not yet a starter capable.. Gasol will either resign or go to other team next year.. With Thomas and Adams he will have an insurance if the 2 will not resign to them..
Is their salary good? I'm not good at math.. if it is then I'll accept it
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 23, 2015 20:24:42 GMT -5
The responses to this trade are insanely missing the point. Boston wants to be competitive now, and this trade helps that dramatically - plus if this trade does eventually get accepted, the longer that the voting draws out the less benefit that this trade will have for Boston.
Batum is the best player in this trade, both by rating and by his role as one of the elite "does everything well" players in the league: lots of players score as well as IT, but very few defend/rebound/distribute/score as well as Batum. He's going from the 3rd or 4th option with the Blazers to being the 1st or 2nd option on the Hornets, so his value is almost certain to rise... And it's not as if Batum is expiring. Even with only 2 years on contract and no Bird Rights, being the best player in the deal counts for more than is being said here. I'm clearly not trying to swindle any picks out of the deal. And I'm throwing in Amar'e virtually free. Even with only 23 games left in the season, getting Amar'e for next-to-nothing absolutely counts when you're counting up the "value" being offered in the trade because Boston wants to make the playoffs.
I'm losing this trade drastically through the end of this year, and he's losing this trade marginally through the next 3-4 only if Batum decides to go elsewhere in free agency. Is that really rejectable when his whole goal since taking over for Danny mid-season has been to work his team into contention?
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 23, 2015 20:28:01 GMT -5
If you will look it player to player I think this is a good move to both teams.. Boston have Kobe,Westbrook and Thomas.. both 3 of them always wants the ball in there hands.. Boston is 7gb away to be on the 8th spot.. and I think Batum and Amare can help them.. Westbrook,Kobe,Batum,Amare,Kanter is a very good starting 5.. Wroten will be their 6th man so they could make a push to the playoffs.. all of them will be back next year except Amare so they will also have a good run next year.. The OKC will lose 2 of their PG making Wroten their starting PG next year.. although he is a good PG he is not yet a starter capable.. Gasol will either resign or go to other team next year.. With Thomas and Adams he will have an insurance if the 2 will not resign to them.. Is their salary good? I'm not good at math.. if it is then I'll accept it The salaries work, yeah.
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Reggie Miller
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Reggie Miller on Aug 23, 2015 21:20:40 GMT -5
then I'll accept this
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 23, 2015 21:27:08 GMT -5
I feel like after this trade Boston might make the playoffs, but seven games is quite a bit. If they miss the playoffs, then where are they going from there? Probably moving some players to build a stronger team. The problem with that is Adams and Thomas are two of their best players value wise, and they're getting Batum in return, who not only is a big risk in 15-16 but also doesn't have nearly enough trade value. Wroten just broke out on a really bad team. Adams is a solid rotation player/fringe starter on a great team, and he seems to have already carved out a niche in the league and it's fair to expect him to continue to be a valuable player. Thomas has been effective on every team he's been on, he's the most effective player off the bench in the league and IMO is only inches away from being a star PG. Don't get me wrong, he's found how to play inside his frame, I just mean he wouldn't be coming off the bench if it weren't for his height.
Batum on the other hand, in my opinion as a blazer fan, is absolutely not the kind of player that will become more valuable as the first or second option. I hope I'm wrong, but in his time at POR (which was probably his prime) he had ample minutes and more than enough time to become the player Steve is ssying he'll be in Charlotte. He IS one of the best players at doing everything, but not like a star. He thrives as a fourth option on offense, when you ask more of him he starts to make bad, rushed decisions. He doesn't have more to show us than he already has. His best case scenario in Charlotte is 13-14 Batum. He's been streaky player his whole career, not a franchise guy.
Think about it, a Portland team that did not yet know it was blowing up and rebuilding traded him for an unproven rookie and an aging Gerald Henderson. He's a great player this season, but going forward OKC is slaying in this trade getting two legit guys for him (Adams is more proven than Wroten), while BOS isn't even a lock for the playoffs. This trade could be a total disaster if they don't make the playoffs, setting BOS further back than they are now because they didn't get proper value for IT and Adams.
Also, Batum is one overall better than IT right now, but both are due for rating updates (Batum down, IT up), and IT is on a steal of a contract so he is by far the most valuable player in this deal.
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Post by John Stockton on Aug 23, 2015 21:37:09 GMT -5
I feel like after this trade Boston might make the playoffs, but seven games is quite a bit. If they miss the playoffs, then where are they going from there? Probably moving some players to build a stronger team. The problem with that is Adams and Thomas are two of their best players value wise, and they're getting Batum in return, who not only is a big risk in 15-16 but also doesn't have nearly enough trade value. Wroten just broke out on a really bad team. Adams is a solid rotation player/fringe starter on a great team, and he seems to have already carved out a niche in the league and it's fair to expect him to continue to be a valuable player. Thomas has been effective on every team he's been on, he's the most effective player off the bench in the league and IMO is only inches away from being a star PG. Don't get me wrong, he's found how to play inside his frame, I just mean he wouldn't be coming off the bench if it weren't for his height. Batum on the other hand, in my opinion as a blazer fan, is absolutely not the kind of player that will become more valuable as the first or second option. I hope I'm wrong, but in his time at POR (which was probably his prime) he had ample minutes and more than enough time to become the player Steve is ssying he'll be in Charlotte. He IS one of the best players at doing everything, but not like a star. He thrives as a fourth option on offense, when you ask more of him he starts to make bad, rushed decisions. He doesn't have more to show us than he already has. His best case scenario in Charlotte is 13-14 Batum. He's been streaky player his whole career, not a franchise guy. Think about it, a Portland team that did not yet know it was blowing up and rebuilding traded him for an unproven rookie and an aging Gerald Henderson. He's a great player this season, but going forward OKC is slaying in this trade getting two legit guys for him (Adams is more proven than Wroten), while BOS isn't even a lock for the playoffs. This trade could be a total disaster if they don't make the playoffs, setting BOS further back than they are now because they didn't get proper value for IT and Adams. Also, Batum is one overall better than IT right now, but both are due for rating updates (Batum down, IT up), and IT is on a steal of a contract so he is by far the most valuable player in this deal. thank you for this. i agree with pretty much everything you say here. where does boston go after this trade? they make playoffs this season as an 8th seed in the best case scenario. worst case scenario they gave up their two most valuable assets for batum without BR...
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 23, 2015 22:48:38 GMT -5
I feel like after this trade Boston might make the playoffs, but seven games is quite a bit. If they miss the playoffs, then where are they going from there? Probably moving some players to build a stronger team. The problem with that is Adams and Thomas are two of their best players value wise, and they're getting Batum in return, who not only is a big risk in 15-16 but also doesn't have nearly enough trade value. Wroten just broke out on a really bad team. Adams is a solid rotation player/fringe starter on a great team, and he seems to have already carved out a niche in the league and it's fair to expect him to continue to be a valuable player. Thomas has been effective on every team he's been on, he's the most effective player off the bench in the league and IMO is only inches away from being a star PG. Don't get me wrong, he's found how to play inside his frame, I just mean he wouldn't be coming off the bench if it weren't for his height. Batum on the other hand, in my opinion as a blazer fan, is absolutely not the kind of player that will become more valuable as the first or second option. I hope I'm wrong, but in his time at POR (which was probably his prime) he had ample minutes and more than enough time to become the player Steve is ssying he'll be in Charlotte. He IS one of the best players at doing everything, but not like a star. He thrives as a fourth option on offense, when you ask more of him he starts to make bad, rushed decisions. He doesn't have more to show us than he already has. His best case scenario in Charlotte is 13-14 Batum. He's been streaky player his whole career, not a franchise guy. Think about it, a Portland team that did not yet know it was blowing up and rebuilding traded him for an unproven rookie and an aging Gerald Henderson. He's a great player this season, but going forward OKC is slaying in this trade getting two legit guys for him (Adams is more proven than Wroten), while BOS isn't even a lock for the playoffs. This trade could be a total disaster if they don't make the playoffs, setting BOS further back than they are now because they didn't get proper value for IT and Adams. Also, Batum is one overall better than IT right now, but both are due for rating updates (Batum down, IT up), and IT is on a steal of a contract so he is by far the most valuable player in this deal. Valid arguments... Short-sighted, but valid. For starters, you claim that Portland did not know they were blowing up, but that's straight up false - everyone in the league knew LMA was leaving, just not where. Also, claiming that Batum having had the minutes and not developing into a star means anything is ridiculous. Batum has had the minutes, sure, but he's never had the opportunity to be more than a 3rd-4th option, and once he has that opportunity I think he'll really shine. He was streaky offensively because the thing that Portland needed most from him was defense (something that never faltered), but with MKG filling that role for him he'll be free to start at Shooting Guard and focus on being the offensive threat/two way beast that he has the potential to be for the first time in his whole career. The role that Batum will play in that Boston team takes care of all the holes in the game of their starting five, and whether or not we downgrade him this offseason for having a down year I guarantee he'll be upgraded above 68 before a significant portion of next season has passed - that's how much I'm sure he'll be a completely different player for the Hornets. It's these things that inspired me to draft him, and for these reasons that I say he's the best player in the trade. And again, IT's contract is great, but what does he really bring for a team except scoring on high-volume shooting, average-at-best distribution, and a net-negative on defense because of his size and length deficiencies? Boston already has two of those players locked up for the next two/three years and hardly needs another one - even after Kobe is gone, IT is still a player that doesn't mesh with Westbrook - so even for a bargain contract is it really any better for his team to keep him around when his real need is a guy exactly like Batum? Obviously it looks like I'm trying to shit on IT, and that's not really my point... he's a good player, he's just not so good as to make his contract the deciding factor in this deal. Boston's line up needs length, defense and a "do-it-all" guy, my line-up needs scoring more than defense (which is why on both sides this move is important to us). The pros and cons of this deal shouldn't and don't revolve around whether the contracts being traded make a difference - we both acknowledged that the contracts and their respective values play a part in this deal before agreeing to the trade, and clearly thought that the respective benefits for our teams were worth saying yes. You're being blinded by "value" and completely ignoring the most fundamental parts of managing a basketball team: building a cohesive team by acquiring players that fill a role that your current roster is lacking. Roster and contract management is key, and spending so much time looking at the numbers on your salary sheet that you fail to notice you're paying someone who is unnecessary to your team is just bad management.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 24, 2015 1:11:44 GMT -5
Okay, first off, Aldridge, Olshey, and the Kim Hughes firing have confirmed that Aldridge did not decide he was leaving until he narrowed it down to PHX and SAS. Do that research, I know I did. When you say, "everyone in the league knew he was leaving" that's more referring to speculation by fans, which is not indicitive of what actually went down between Aldridge and the blazers FO. Neil Olshey said they were running all trades past Aldridge in the offseason, they were trying to make moves that both improved the team and prepared us for if he left.
Boy, you've really changed your tune about value vs. fit since the BOS-TOR trade! Riddle me this, why should fit be more important than value when the best case scenario fit only gets the team to the 8th seed??
Fit is more important for a team that is contending right now. I agree that Batum is a good fit for BOS, and IT is a bad fit, but why should a team fighting to make the playoffs sacrifice value for fit? Even if Boston makes this trade, they still have a lot of trading to do to contend in the future, so it doesn't make sense for them to trade away two of their most liquid assets for a guy that will be an expiring next year and Tony Wroten.
Here's the thing about Batum being "guaranteed" to be rated better next year... You seem to think he can be this killer scorer but his game IS doing a little bit of everything, which I think is very valuable. The problem is, Charlotte wants him to be a one or two banana, when they really should be letting him do his own thing, rebounding, passing, playing D and waiting on the perimiter for open looks and/or making cuts to the basket. It's like they are shoving a square block through the circle hole, and it reminds me of Lance. I think him playing SG will be bad for his offense, because arguably his best skill is his ability to handle the ball as a forward. This causes mismatches because he is one of the most elite SF ballhandlers so the SF he matches up against is not really prepared for or used to guarding a guy with his skill. SGs play on the ball more often, so SGs have to be able to defend the Batum-like handlers. This makes him lose his edge a bit.
In any case, he's not a guy that creates his own shot, he prefers to share the ball and work within the rhythm of the offense. If you're trying to make him the first or second option on offense in a new position, you're going to have a bad time. Especially coming off his biggest regressive year ever, and leaving the only team he's played for so far. New system, new position, new team, added responsibility for a player who is curtailing his prime? No thanks.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 24, 2015 2:32:03 GMT -5
Okay, first off, Aldridge, Olshey, and the Kim Hughes firing have confirmed that Aldridge did not decide he was leaving until he narrowed it down to PHX and SAS. Do that research, I know I did. When you say, "everyone in the league knew he was leaving" that's more referring to speculation by fans, which is not indicitive of what actually went down between Aldridge and the blazers FO. Neil Olshey said they were running all trades past Aldridge in the offseason, they were trying to make moves that both improved the team and prepared us for if he left. Boy, you've really changed your tune about value vs. fit since the BOS-TOR trade! Riddle me this, why should fit be more important than value when the best case scenario fit only gets the team to the 8th seed?? Fit is more important for a team that is contending right now. I agree that Batum is a good fit for BOS, and IT is a bad fit, but why should a team fighting to make the playoffs sacrifice value for fit? Even if Boston makes this trade, they still have a lot of trading to do to contend in the future, so it doesn't make sense for them to trade away two of their most liquid assets for a guy that will be an expiring next year and Tony Wroten. Here's the thing about Batum being "guaranteed" to be rated better next year... You seem to think he can be this killer scorer but his game IS doing a little bit of everything, which I think is very valuable. The problem is, Charlotte wants him to be a one or two banana, when they really should be letting him do his own thing, rebounding, passing, playing D and waiting on the perimiter for open looks and/or making cuts to the basket. It's like they are shoving a square block through the circle hole, and it reminds me of Lance. I think him playing SG will be bad for his offense, because arguably his best skill is his ability to handle the ball as a forward. This causes mismatches because he is one of the most elite SF ballhandlers so the SF he matches up against is not really prepared for or used to guarding a guy with his skill. SGs play on the ball more often, so SGs have to be able to defend the Batum-like handlers. This makes him lose his edge a bit. In any case, he's not a guy that creates his own shot, he prefers to share the ball and work within the rhythm of the offense. If you're trying to make him the first or second option on offense in a new position, you're going to have a bad time. Especially coming off his biggest regressive year ever, and leaving the only team he's played for so far. New system, new position, new team, added responsibility for a player who is curtailing his prime? No thanks. 1) Look dude, no self-respecting GM in their right mind would ever trade Batum for Vonleh and Henderson without knowing full well that a full-scale rebuild is on the way and a high-potential prospect player would be important to that effort. Say whatever you want about that trade, but everybody knew from the second that trade happened that Portland knew what was up... it's the only logical reason behind making that move when doing so clearly made the team worse and made Aldridge's decision to leave even easier. Any confirmation you've found stating that Aldridge only decided to leave Portland at the point he narrowed it down the PHX/SAS is optimistic BS. Portland was only still in the running until it was narrowed down because that's where his home was and he'd spent 9 years of his career, but it was never one of his top choices and that trade proves that Portland knew or expected that reality. 2) So what if I have changed my tune on fit vs. value, that's a personal thing for me and I reserve the right to never get stagnant in my opinions when operating as a member of this league's trading committee. Furthermore, the "fit" I'm offering him is a wash at worst or an overall upgrade of a player at best, whereas your "fit" that you were seeking was a large enough downgrade that I didn't consider the trade to have been beneficial to your team or their success. And on top of that, you were the one content to give up the value in that deal, so the fact that you're here arguing against the premise that spawned your own trade (that got accepted, by the way) is far more damning than you perceiving me to have "flip-flopped" from my position when the situations barely have any similarities. 3) For a guy with a career average of 17% usage rate, and a peak average of 20% usage rate, you sure want to pretend that he couldn't possibly get any better with more touches. When his game is right, the guy shoots solid percentages from the floor, from 3, and from the free throw line, and he's almost never been relied upon as the offensive drive for a team because he's spent that whole career with Aldridge, and most of it with Lillard and Aldrige: a player's break out year is usually their 4/5th year in the league, so clearly any offensive growth Batum could have had in the time was stunted by being the 3rd or 4th option on a team with Aldridge/Lillard/Matthews. I think it's very realistic to say that he'll have his best year of his career this year unless he mentally collapses like Lance did... and Batum is far less selfish/egotistical as a player, so I just don't see that happening. Now the only guy Batum is guaranteed to cede offensive touches to is Al Jefferson, and with Al being more of a post guy than Aldridge ever really was, I think it's easily conceivable that Batum and Jefferson mesh as well or better as complementary offensive threats than Batum and Aldridge did. 4) Batum was always going to be guarded by a team's better perimeter defender when he's paired at the wing with a poor scoring threat like MKG, so calling out SG vs SF as a means for him being worse is really just a matter of semantics. And I still disagree. 5) I don't even know how to respond to this last part, a lot of weird and wrong assumptions thrown around... Curtailing his prime? He hasn't even fully entered his prime yet. And the worst regressive year ever? The funny thing about outliers is that they don't typically get repeated. Batum doesn't even need to be able to create his own shots to be a good offensive threat, but if we agree that he's an adept ball handler, the we certainly should agree that he's athletic enough to make his own offense a few times a game. And yeah there will be some struggles as he adjusts to a new position (we don't even know for sure where he'll be playing yet), new team/new system/added responsibility (meaning more conducive to his personal success than his previous situation?), but it's far from a guarantee that he'll be a worse player.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 24, 2015 2:46:25 GMT -5
I didn't mean to criticize you about the changing thing, obviously they were different situations. I just thought it was funny, I guess I should have put like a smiley face or something there.
I dunno, you make some good points about Batum, like I said I think he's a good player. I just think this is bad trade for Boston, that's all.
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Post by Kylo Ren on Aug 24, 2015 10:02:06 GMT -5
Adams will be a top 10 center someday, book it. Therefore, I reject.
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