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Post by John Stockton on Sept 5, 2015 18:02:41 GMT -5
Seattle Supersonics send:
69 Kemba Walker $3,452,183 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $12,000,000
2018 SEA 1st
2018 SEA 2nd
2018 IND 2nd
2018 MIA 2nd
2018 GSW 2nd
Salary before: $43,934,847
Salary after: $49,982,664
Atlanta Hawks send:
72 DeMar DeRozan $9,500,000 $9,500,000 $9,500,000
Salary before: $58,686,156
Salary after: $52,638,339
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Post by John Stockton on Sept 5, 2015 18:04:19 GMT -5
Seattle Supersonics accept this trade. We already have Conley and Burke as our point guards and Kemba is therefore expendable for us. Losing those picks hurt but this allows us to not only gain a player that fits our team better but also gives us 2.5M in cap room next year to go for free agents this off season. Brown Cobb IV |
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Sept 5, 2015 18:05:59 GMT -5
I like Kemba a lot (long term contract), and I think he has a lot of room to grow (fix that shooting percentage). Was looking for assets, and I am targeting 2018 for my rebuild start.
I accept
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Post by John Stockton on Sept 5, 2015 18:32:34 GMT -5
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Steve Jobs
 Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Sept 5, 2015 20:04:57 GMT -5
I'd rather have DeRozan than all of that, honestly. With LeBron/Conley/DeRozan and a stable of young talented centers all in for the long haul, that first rounder even in 2018 is pretty much a lock for bottom 5, and I am in no way a believer in Kemba Walker or his potential to improve. So this is essentially like two late first rounders and several late 2nd rounders for a top 5 SG/SF. It looks halfway decent on paper but I think this might end up being a net loss for the Hawks, who could have easily engineered a tank job around DeRozan to get into the lottery and still had him around as a star in his prime come 2018 for the "rebuild start."
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Post by John Stockton on Sept 5, 2015 22:32:29 GMT -5
I'd rather have DeRozan than all of that, honestly. With LeBron/Conley/DeRozan and a stable of young talented centers all in for the long haul, that first rounder even in 2018 is pretty much a lock for bottom 5, and I am in no way a believer in Kemba Walker or his potential to improve. So this is essentially like two late first rounders and several late 2nd rounders for a top 5 SG/SF. It looks halfway decent on paper but I think this might end up being a net loss for the Hawks, who could have easily engineered a tank job around DeRozan to get into the lottery and still had him around as a star in his prime come 2018 for the "rebuild start." so reject? |
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Sept 5, 2015 22:38:29 GMT -5
I'd rather have DeRozan than all of that, honestly. With LeBron/Conley/DeRozan and a stable of young talented centers all in for the long haul, that first rounder even in 2018 is pretty much a lock for bottom 5, and I am in no way a believer in Kemba Walker or his potential to improve. So this is essentially like two late first rounders and several late 2nd rounders for a top 5 SG/SF. It looks halfway decent on paper but I think this might end up being a net loss for the Hawks, who could have easily engineered a tank job around DeRozan to get into the lottery and still had him around as a star in his prime come 2018 for the "rebuild start." so reject? I haven't decided yet. |
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Sept 5, 2015 22:55:13 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying, but as a rebuilding team I look for a contract in which I'm in control of longer. As the cap rises in 4 years kemba contract will be a steal.
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Sept 5, 2015 22:57:43 GMT -5
Also the way free agency is done in this leagues free agents will always want to go to winning teams and since I won't have when derozans contract is up, I doubt he will re sign. However I feel that I will have kemba once I'm a winning team so it will be easier to re sign him
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Sept 5, 2015 23:51:23 GMT -5
Also the way free agency is done in this leagues free agents will always want to go to winning teams and since I won't have when derozans contract is up, I doubt he will re sign. However I feel that I will have kemba once I'm a winning team so it will be easier to re sign him The vast majority of all the talks we've had on how to handle free agency in this league has been to try to make sure that if nothing else we learn from the successes and failures of other sim leagues so that the process is (at least attempting to be) smoother and more realistic here than in other sim leagues. On top of that, you'll have DeRozan's Bird Rights (a huge factor in "loyalty") and he's at the moment your 100% undisputed star player, first-round-fantasy-draft-pick kind of guy. Giving up your #1 guy, and a much better/more valuable player, out of fear that he won't re-sign with you in the midst of a rebuild is exactly the kind of crap that doesn't make any sense and what we need to be focusing on trying to amend in our offseason/free agency processes here if indeed it has been problematic in other sim leagues in the past. Dirk/Stucky for Kanter and a 1st with some potential is the kind of trade that fuels a rebuild... Kemba and several low-tier draft picks is exactly the opposite of a good core to build your team around. Obviously the hawks have played too many games this season for you to actually tank and have a chance at a star player with your 2015 draft pick, so this trade is betting BIG on your ability to tank effectively with 69+ rated Kemba and 64+ rated Kanter as your main players and find actual stars in your 2016 and 2017 drafts... which, just seems like a HUGE stretch. The roster is too good and too deep to just be outright bad next year. And all this has yet to mention that you're trading away DeRozan in large part for a pick that is 4 years off when John could easily have offered you a 2017 1st, which is a pick among a much deeper class of rookies as well as adding a player that will have played a season before the "end" of your rebuild, and can be a useful contributor immediately when you start trying to be competitive instead of needing a year or two to develop. So again, let me state that I think this trade is bad for you, and for your attempt to "rebuild" that is coming so awkwardly close to the playoffs that you might still end up being a part of. You'd have been better off aiming to package a bunch of your lower tier guys and aiming for "smaller" returns like picks or rookies than immediately trading your star player for 75-80 cents on the dollar. But I'm gonna accept. The value returned is not bad enough to say definitively that this trade is rejectable, and with luck/skill you'll field a more competitive team on the other side. With a better pick, or a higher-upside player than Kemba, this trade would be even and we wouldn't be having this discussion, but as is I can't reject it. |
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Reggie Miller
 Indiana Pacers
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Post by Reggie Miller on Sept 6, 2015 10:44:57 GMT -5
Interesting trade... Seattle need a SG and Derozan can provide that.. while the Atlanta wants to have a longer contract at the PG spot.. although the Atlanta have a starter PG already in Jennings he is not a BR player.. that 2018 pick might be handy.. we never know what will happen in 2018.. at first I was leaning on rejecting this but this ain't rejectable enough so I accept
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Post by Colin Loftin on Sept 6, 2015 11:54:08 GMT -5
I actually do think this is rejectable. Giving up a top 5 SG who has a very reasonable contract and bird rights for a below average PG (and as a Hornets fan I love Kemba) and a likely late 1st round pick is definitely rejectable. The 2nd round picks would likely be at the end of the draft as well, so they have almost no real value. I honestly don't think this is even all that close. If you want to tank next year, you can still do so with DeRozan (look at Orlando with Butler). If you want to trade him, that's fine too, but DeRozan is worth more than a below average PG and a likely late 1st.
Reject.
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Sept 6, 2015 12:08:24 GMT -5
Danm yeah I see what you mean now, I was just worried that I wouldn't be able to re sign him, but if that's not an issue then yeah I see the problem
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Post by Colin Loftin on Sept 6, 2015 12:19:13 GMT -5
You have bird rights so you'll be able to offer him whatever contract you want since you'll be able to go over the salary cap to do so. Billy is probably the best person to offer insight on free agency, but I'd guess being with a team for 3 years and that team being able to offer the most money would be pretty compelling reasons to re sign.
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Post by Brown Cobb IV on Sept 6, 2015 12:23:28 GMT -5
Yeah makes sense, never thought of it that way
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billy
 Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Sept 6, 2015 13:48:47 GMT -5
You have bird rights so you'll be able to offer him whatever contract you want since you'll be able to go over the salary cap to do so. Billy is probably the best person to offer insight on free agency, but I'd guess being with a team for 3 years and that team being able to offer the most money would be pretty compelling reasons to re sign. Especially if offering him the max 6 year deal that only teams with bird rights can offer. |
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Paul Pierce
 Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Sept 6, 2015 13:52:47 GMT -5
I think seastle rapes this trade
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Sept 6, 2015 13:56:51 GMT -5
maybe if he added philis first or miluake but i still wouldn't even do thst
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billy
Miami Heat
Posts: 7,174
Likes: 6,145
Total Bank: 3,050
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Post by billy on Sept 6, 2015 16:51:17 GMT -5
You have bird rights so you'll be able to offer him whatever contract you want since you'll be able to go over the salary cap to do so. Billy is probably the best person to offer insight on free agency, but I'd guess being with a team for 3 years and that team being able to offer the most money would be pretty compelling reasons to re sign. I also only think Demar is considered a top 5 shooting guard (still a stretch IMO) because all the people that would be called shooting guards modern NBA teams just play at the point guard spot. If Kemba was a SG he would be top 10. |
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Post by John Stockton on Sept 6, 2015 16:58:32 GMT -5
Kemba is still young and has room to grow, in addition to the 17-5-3.5 that he averaged throughout his career. You guys can call him below average if you want, but with the jumper that he already has in place with a better supporting cast coming in this year, he will undoubtedly post much better numbers this upcoming year.
Also, you have to take into account the contract situation. In three years when Demar's contract is over, he will likely demand upwards of high 20M range, which makes Kemba's contract for 12M a year for two more years look like nothing by then. Hell, players like Jarrett Jack, Jarred Bayless and other similar point guards in that range will likely demand that much money.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Sept 6, 2015 17:48:31 GMT -5
DeMar is considered a top 5 shooting guard because not a lot of other shooting guards are good, not because other "shooting guards" are trying to play point guard. It's been one season derailed by injury since DeRozan put up 23/4/4 on 43% FG/82% FT. And before that season he was a model of consistency and health, rarely missing more than handful of games in a season (11 games missed in his first 5 seasons).
Also, we can't just rank Kemba as an SG without throwing other combo guards into the mix, and if we were putting all PGs and SGs in a blind group and assigning them a ranking based only on performance, Kemba would probably fall out of my top 20. On top of that, if Kemba was a shooting guard he'd probably be even less valuable because he would get less assists and his usage% would go down... sure as hell not top 10 at that point.
Look, say what you want about hoping he improves his percentages, but the guy can't shoot. If you average under 40% from the field over 4 years in the league while consistently shooting over 80% from the FT line, you're not just magically going to develop a more consistent jumper. And bringing in guys like Batum who can run the offense really effectively will probably bring down Kemba's assists even more.
Even with that contract, I'm not sold on Kemba as any more than a low efficiency/high usage score-first Point Guard on a bad team. A more talented Tony Wroten on a team whose FO just hasn't resigned itself to tanking until it has all the right pieces in place.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Sept 6, 2015 22:44:38 GMT -5
*shrugs* i'd rather have tyreke evans than demar derozan.
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Post by John Stockton on Sept 6, 2015 23:53:57 GMT -5
*shrugs* i'd rather have tyreke evans than demar derozan. wut |
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Sept 7, 2015 16:21:36 GMT -5
*shrugs* i'd rather have tyreke evans than demar derozan. wut Cause Tyreke is better in almost every single category except total points. |
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Sept 12, 2015 19:03:03 GMT -5
Trade passed after 7 days due to the TC being little bitches and being too afraid to give a vote.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Sept 13, 2015 10:44:09 GMT -5
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Reggie Miller
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Reggie Miller on Sept 14, 2015 19:53:10 GMT -5
roster updated
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