billy
 Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 3, 2020 7:14:17 GMT -5
Hey all,
As you know our injury system and the system the NBA has adopted doesn't mesh together real well.
I'm going to lay out three options:
1) Strictly follow the written rule. That is, if a player comes back for a regular season game then they come back during that game for real life. Players that do not come back for the regular season will not play.
2) Heal all players that don't have "season-ending" injuries for the playoffs in 720. These are players that could obviously play, but chose not to for coronavirus or other reasons. People who have torn their ACL etc. will not be healed.
3) Continue with the injury list from when we suspended. That is, if a player was scheduled to come back, bring him back. If not, they stay injured throughout the rest of 720 regular season and playoffs.
Votes will be final at the end of our Fantasy playoffs, at which point the league file will be updated for all the moves made during suspension and simming will continue for all teams for 82 games.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 3, 2020 9:13:35 GMT -5
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Steve Jobs
 Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 3, 2020 9:46:15 GMT -5
I’m sure my argument will get viewed as self-serving... so that’s fine.
I think Option 3 makes the most sense. It’s the only option that... more or less... doesn’t open any doors that simply make our situation more complicated.
If they were going to sit out the rest of the season, they miss. If they were healthy, they stay.
Put simply, there isn’t any way to know what happens if the season had initially just finished as normal, but since WE are trying to “finish as normal”, the closest we’ll get to that is following the injury list that we had established pre-COVID.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 3, 2020 11:29:45 GMT -5
With option 3, Aldridge would be back and then, Penny Hardaway be like Jack Nicholson in The Shining. |
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 3, 2020 12:07:13 GMT -5
With option 3, Aldridge would be back and then, Penny Hardaway be like Jack Nicholson in The Shining. LOL He’s already started tanking in his mind, I think we’re safe from Johnny |
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 3, 2020 12:17:10 GMT -5
Funny or not so funny enough though, Rockets were the hottest team in the entire league before shit happened.
I mean, they still hold a 12 games winning streak. 76ers come 2nd obviously (lol) with 8.
It wouldn't be Johnny though. It would be Henry.
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Post by Penny Hardaway on Aug 3, 2020 12:33:32 GMT -5
This kinda blows,but it is what it is.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 3, 2020 15:52:32 GMT -5
Honestly though the option I like the least is option 1. I mean, for a moment today I thought it was option 3 because of the injured players but then I remembered what was my biggest argument for having a vote in the 1st place.
Mainly there are 2 reasons why I dislike option 1:
1) we already voted against the 'bubble' format.
2) There are players from 8 different teams in real life that did not decide whether to join or not the bubble. I mean, even if we want to follow real life as close as possible we will never know what those guys would have decided which makes it unfair for those who decided against it with some doing it based on what was best for the health of their family.
And to a point, I could even agree with Pete if he thinks Isaac should play because he got injured inside the bubble. And playing at least 8 extra games adds a very real risk that players outside the bubble wont face.
But even the wording of option 1 comes as ambiguous to me and I don't think it is Billy's fault. I mean, option 1 is supposed to be the irl one when in fact it could be the less real of all because it adds fictional information to 8 teams out of 30 or 27% (That's a considerable percentage).
"Strictly follow the written rule. That is, if a player comes back for a regular season game then they come back during that game for real life. Players that do not come back for the regular season will not play."
I know it is not what it means but if you ask me that sounds like player who did not join the real life bubble should not be allowed to play.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 3, 2020 16:18:06 GMT -5
To be clear though I think players like Karl-Anthony Towns and Andre Drummond should be allowed to play.
But rewarding them over other guys just because KAT made the Playoffs once in 5 years and Drummond twice in 8? Doesn't seem fair to me specially if we are talking about a goal that they usually don't achieve.  |
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Theodore Duncan
 Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Aug 3, 2020 16:29:05 GMT -5
Not sure what was the final list of people sitting out from bubble, but weren't most of them guys like Bertans who didn't want to risk injury on contract year with no hope to get to playoffs?
Generally I think it's more realistic if we have some flexibility in the rule. For example if someone who suffers a clear season ending injury (ACL, Achilles, broken bones, etc) in last 8-15 games of season, should be taken out even if the injury threshold for D720 is not met. But in the other hand someone who is shutdown irl for last 15 games for something really minor, just because tanking reasons, should be able to join D720 playoffs. As if they would be in playoff team, likely they would play through some minor stuff.
I mean if there are some players in gray area it could be voted by PA-committee or something.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 3, 2020 16:48:30 GMT -5
Not sure what was the final list of people sitting out from bubble, but weren't most of them guys like Bertans who didn't want to risk injury on contract year with no hope to get to playoffs? Well, Warriors for example has 3 guys: Willie Cauley-Stein, Avery Bradley and Michael Beasley. All healthy to play but who decided not to enter the bubble.
And sure, I would really like for Yeezy to have Bertans. But I am sharing my point of view because I truly believe in the fact it doesn't make much of a sense rewarding some players over others just because they didn't make it to the bubble list. Think it is counterintuitive to say the least.
Would like to fix one thing about my original post. I am wrong when I say option 1 could be the less real because non-bubble guys would play in all 3 options. But it would be the less consistent I think in terms of fairness. And do believe the big word here is risk. Bubble guys will face some risks that the rest wont which is why you want to give them the benefit on the doubt on certain things. I mean, there is such a risk that the NBA had to sign significant insurances or else there would be no real life bubble at all.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 3, 2020 17:30:08 GMT -5
And it does make a lot of noice to me that Wizards will lose Isaac in here just because he played in the bubble. Don't know. I guess there is not much to do given the apparent severity of the injury (didn't check that much about it to be honest) but it is just unfair that for Pete it would have been a lot better if Isaac didn't play.
I guess though it is a bit like when players get injured during Playoffs although this is regular season for only a couple of teams. Don't really recall what happens in that case. Could it be that we just let them play? Not sure if we had many cases like that either because it would require the player to reach the Playoffs both in here as in real life and advance to a similar round.
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Aug 3, 2020 19:16:27 GMT -5
I still think Option 3 is the most viable option here.
Players suspended or injured without a return date from our last regular season game should be out during our regular season and playoffs. The severity of the injury should not matter as not all the teams are inside the bubble, hence, we won't be able to to determine when will the players return for the remaining 8 teams left out of the bubble.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 4, 2020 18:28:11 GMT -5
shameless bump
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 4, 2020 18:40:29 GMT -5
Just found out James McAvoy was part of the original 'Shameless' TV show from 2004 to 2005. That was just before 'The Last King of Scotland'. |
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Post by Penny Hardaway on Aug 6, 2020 3:48:04 GMT -5
Sabonis would play under option 2?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 6, 2020 12:29:52 GMT -5
Sabonis would play under option 2? Yeah, I don't consider plantar fasciatas to be season-ending |
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Post by Penny Hardaway on Aug 6, 2020 12:32:19 GMT -5
Option 2 it is!
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 6, 2020 13:34:22 GMT -5
Guys who were discarded from season restart because of injury wont return with #2, right? I mean, I though that was the difference between #2 and #3 and that's basically what we have been debating with Steve for example going for #3 that would bring back Beal.
I mean, I don't say Steve thinks #3 is the way to go because of Beal but i am saying that he understand #3 = Bradley because of how he opened his statement " I’m sure my argument will get viewed as self-serving... so that’s fine. "
From my understanding of the opening explanation, #2 vs #3 basically differentiates guys that opted against the bubble because of personal reasons vs injury (Beal) or season-ending surgery (as in Bojan or Aldridge). I mean, that's basically what the discussion has been about for about 2 days I think.
#2: "These are players that could obviously play, but chose not to for coronavirus or other reasons"
That part specifically to me basically says: "Not Bojan, Aldridge and Beal".
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 6, 2020 16:38:07 GMT -5
If you sort by description, the players that are out for the season show 1st and it excludes those that opted out for personal reasons. Only one that should be removed from that list is Michael Beasley because he shows as being out because of COVID.
Also, it is basketball reference so that list should be legit. And I checked it out and it does seem legit.
Players that opted out of the bubble for personal reasons show afterwards as 'Out (Undisclosed)' or 'Out (Personal)'.
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Paul Pierce
 Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Aug 6, 2020 19:45:48 GMT -5
would kat play under option 2?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 6, 2020 21:11:11 GMT -5
would kat play under option 2? yes |
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Shaq O'Neal
 LA Clippers
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Post by Shaq O'Neal on Aug 6, 2020 22:36:21 GMT -5
If you sort by description, the players that are out for the season show 1st and it excludes those that opted out for personal reasons. Only one that should be removed from that list is Michael Beasley because he shows as being out because of COVID.
Also, it is basketball reference so that list should be legit. And I checked it out and it does seem legit.
Players that opted out of the bubble for personal reasons show afterwards as 'Out (Undisclosed)' or 'Out (Personal)'.
I like this idea.Basketball reference is a great option for us to follow and eliminates all debates on whether an injury is season ending or not. |
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Aug 7, 2020 1:31:56 GMT -5
2) Heal all players that don't have "season-ending" injuries for the playoffs in 720. These are players that could obviously play, but chose not to for coronavirus or other reasons. People who have torn their ACL etc. will not be healed. with this option winning so far, just to clarify: 1. will all injured players at the stoppage of the season be out the rest of the regular season and will only return in the playoffs? 2. With players having season-ending injuries, will they be out from our first regular season game back? Also, with the link Kong shared, it would help in monitoring the injuries. It will be useful for us. |
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 7, 2020 2:45:23 GMT -5
With #2 in mind, I spent about the last hour cross referencing basketball-reference injury report with the last injury list in here and a bit of rotoworld news. And I got the following list (with the corresponding D720 team abbreviations):
BKN Dwight Powell
BKN Jeremy Lamb
BOS LaMarcus Aldridge
CHA Trey Lyles
CLE Klay Thompson
DEN Dylan Windler
DEN Rajon Rondo
DET Skal Labissiere
MEM Blake Griffin
MEM John Wall
MIA DeMarcus Cousins
MIN Nicolas Claxton
NOP Justise Winslow
NOP Kris Dunn
NYK Kyrie Irving
OKC Bradley Beal
ORL Kevin Durant
PHI Bojan Bogdanović
PHI Jalen Brunson
SAC Jaren Jackson
SAC Zhaire Smith
SAS Chandler Hutchison
UTA Marvin Bagley
UTA Rodney Hood
WAS Chuma Okeke
WAS Jonathan Isaac
WAS Kevon Looney
N/A C.J. Miles
N/A Chandler Parsons
N/A Courtney Lee
N/A Darius Miller
N/A David Nwaba
N/A Isaiah Roby
N/A Max Strus
N/A Ray Spalding
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 7, 2020 7:22:47 GMT -5
2) Heal all players that don't have "season-ending" injuries for the playoffs in 720. These are players that could obviously play, but chose not to for coronavirus or other reasons. People who have torn their ACL etc. will not be healed. with this option winning so far, just to clarify: 1. will all injured players at the stoppage of the season be out the rest of the regular season and will only return in the playoffs? 2. With players having season-ending injuries, will they be out from our first regular season game back? Also, with the link Kong shared, it would help in monitoring the injuries. It will be useful for us. No I'll just bring everyone back. Think of it as the option where we are starting our "regular season" at the same time the NBA started their covid19 season. We're just playing more games with more teams. Season ending injury players will not play at all. |
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Aug 7, 2020 9:59:46 GMT -5
With #2 in mind, I spent about the last hour cross referencing basketball-reference injury report with the last injury list in here and a bit of rotoworld news. And I got the following list (with the corresponding D720 team abbreviations):
BKN Dwight Powell
BKN Jeremy Lamb
BOS LaMarcus Aldridge
CHA Trey Lyles
CLE Klay Thompson
DEN Dylan Windler
DEN Rajon Rondo
DET Skal Labissiere
MEM Blake Griffin
MEM John Wall
MIA DeMarcus Cousins
MIN Nicolas Claxton
NOP Justise Winslow
NOP Kris Dunn
NYK Kyrie Irving
OKC Bradley Beal
ORL Kevin Durant
PHI Bojan Bogdanović
PHI Jalen Brunson
SAC Jaren Jackson
SAC Zhaire Smith
SAS Chandler Hutchison
UTA Marvin Bagley
UTA Rodney Hood
WAS Chuma Okeke
WAS Jonathan Isaac
WAS Kevon Looney
N/A C.J. Miles
N/A Chandler Parsons
N/A Courtney Lee
N/A Darius Miller
N/A David Nwaba
N/A Isaiah Roby
N/A Max Strus
N/A Ray Spalding
this sounds about right then. Great job, Kong! |
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Houston Rockets
Orlando Magic
