billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 18, 2015 23:53:21 GMT -5
if you have a rookie coming off a contract and entering RFA you can offer them a 5 year contract, while other teams can only offer them a 4 year contract. it makes it very unlikely rookies will leave your team.
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jun 19, 2015 9:51:33 GMT -5
I only chose LAL for market size and the name.
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Post by Milt Newton on Jun 19, 2015 16:58:39 GMT -5
Dammit. In pinoyhoops I'm a mid-round team, and it seems I will also be a mid-round team here! It's like Minnesota during the Kevin Love years or the Garnett years when he was the only star.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 17:24:11 GMT -5
I get the idea of *potential to win* being a slight part of who a FA selects (not a huge deal irl outside of the bigger FA or vet FA's) but, the geographical location / the market size shouldn't be a factor here in fantasy.
Not really fair when people selected teams at random too.
And, if we can pretend that Seattle still has a team, then we can just as easily pretend that a FA may actually want to wind up in Minnesota or Toronto. ;)
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 19, 2015 17:27:01 GMT -5
I get the idea of *potential to win* being a slight part of who a FA selects (not a huge deal irl outside of the bigger FA or vet FA's) but, the geographical location / the market size shouldn't be a factor here in fantasy. Not really fair when people selected teams at random too. And, if we can pretend that Seattle still has a team, then we can just as easily pretend that a FA may actually want to wind up in Minnesota or Toronto. ;) This isn't fantasy this is a NBA simulation league and bigger markets will be more appealing to free agents.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 17:36:56 GMT -5
billy Call it whatever you like but, this is fantasy / make believe / it's not real. And, if we were actually simming the NBA, then we'd just have started with the actual rosters. Also, I'd bet 8 out of 10 owners didn't realise that their fake team's market size would come into play re: FA's. Or else why would anyone take the Timberwolves, Kings & Thunder in the first 8 picks but leave the Nets & Wizards to almost last?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 19, 2015 17:39:16 GMT -5
billy Call it whatever you like but, this is fantasy / make believe / it's not real. And, if we were actually simming the NBA, then we'd just have started with the actual rosters. Also, I'd bet 8 out of 10 owners didn't realise that their fake team's market size would come into play re: FA's. Or else why would anyone take the Timberwolves, Kings & Thunder in the first 8 picks but leave the Nets & Wizards to almost last? Because it's their favorite team why did I take the pelicans? Man it's just the kind of league this is. I said to read the rules before joining market size affecting free agency is in the rules.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 19, 2015 17:53:23 GMT -5
Small-market teams would just have to pay a little bit more just like real life. You keep bringing up one aspect of fantasy the draft, and you keep saying because that's not real we should just throw out the other real rules, but the idea is to have a simulation league as real as possible but just with a fantasy draft. It'll be okay, promise. it's just how things are everything doesn't have to be even, especially if it was written in the rules before anyone registered :)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 17:55:50 GMT -5
billyI'm contributing to how we can hopefully improve the league... And, if others share my sentiment, great. The rules committee can review it. If not, that's cool too, but at least we're all out here discussing the issue. Overall, allowing the powers that be to subjectively tell us where FA's wind up because of their fake team's market size is a recipe for disaster. (Or a player's Ego? We know what a player's thinking? Does M. Gasol auto go to the Grizz now? How about K. Lenoard he loves small market SA?) As commissioner, you've already spotted this will be an issue. So, is it wise to condone & joke about something we know ahead of time will already turn people off from a Dynasty League?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 19, 2015 17:58:59 GMT -5
billyI'm contributing to how we can hopefully improve the league... And, if others share my sentiment, great. The rules committee can review it. If not, that's cool too, but at least we're all out here discussing the issue. Overall, allowing the powers that be to subjectively tell us where FA's wind up because of their fake team's market size is a recipe for disaster. (Or a player's Ego? We know what a player's thinking? Does M. Gasol auto go to the Grizz now? How about K. Lenoard he loves small market SA?) As commissioner, you've already spotted this will be an issue. So, is it wise to condone & joke about something we know ahead of time will already turn people off from a Dynasty League? These rules are literally copy pasted from the most successful and longest running simulation dynasty league of all time dynasty5ive.proboards.comThey work great there, you're just going to have to roll with the punches, man. There is no rules committee, the person who set this league up is me. It's like in fantasy the commissioner decides the scoring rules and then you decide if you want to join the league. Some things I may need help on deciding on or think it should be put to a vote but this is not one of those things.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 19, 2015 18:03:29 GMT -5
I'll tell you what, I do want the league to be a certain way, but if everyone hates it I'm not going to force it on the entire league. You can override my veto if you want. Make a poll about this and if 2/3 of GMs vote to change the rule I'll change it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 18:04:06 GMT -5
it's really the best way and it adds a little different flavor to the game.
sure, it may be harder for some teams to attract free agents but thats also the challenges of the real nba. it maintains the somewhat weak connection between sim and real life.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 18:05:50 GMT -5
and just like in real life, it will make it that much sweeter for small market towns when they do win it all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 19:37:27 GMT -5
I should say sorry & that I misspoke earlier.
I confused two separate ideas & shouldn't have.
Adding in the *potential to win* (or ego?) should be fun in FA. It'd be a nice twist & let people present a case to entice FA outside of the cash.
On the other hand, I feel strongly that the small market thing should be dead last in any decision though.
I know in real life people want to go to Miami but, let's be fair to teams like the TWolves & Raps.
(Note: I'm Boston so, I think I got the whole Celtic green, big-er market working for me, & I'm still advocating for a more level playing field :))
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 19, 2015 19:43:55 GMT -5
I should say sorry & that I misspoke earlier. I confused two separate ideas & shouldn't have. Adding in the *potential to win* (or ego?) should be fun in FA. It'd be a nice twist & let people present a case to entice FA outside of the cash. On the other hand, I feel strongly that the small market thing should be dead last in any decision though. I know in real life people want to go to Miami but, let's be fair to teams like the TWolves & Raps. (Note: I'm Boston so, I think I got the whole Celtic green, big-er market working for me, & I'm still advocating for a more level playing field :)) When you break it down and of course it's different for every player agent but I will give some basic instructions to player agents, it'll sound something like this: 50-70% contract value and length. 20-30% playing time 0-20% market size/ego How it all gets to 100% depends on the player. For most role players and young players I think money matters the most. For older players that have shown the tendency to take a smaller contract to maybe go to a championship contender, I think that should matter a little bit. I also think that Carmelo Anthony signing a 100 million dollar deal to play with the Utah Jazz would be ridiculous and never happen in real life, and that should be somewhat reflected here as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 19:53:44 GMT -5
That's cool, it's dead last, so it should work as a decent tiebreaker.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 19, 2015 19:56:40 GMT -5
That's cool, it's dead last, so it should work as a decent tiebreaker. exactly. The more things we take into account when deciding where a player goes the less it's up to just how the player agent feels and will make things better and more logical. I don't think people will quit over market size, but everyone aeays gets mad when they lose out on free agents for whatever reason, but with a player like Lebron everyone will offer him the same deal and there will be 2 championship teams that offer him a mad deal and he will get the same playing time... So where would he go? It's just arbitrary after that and will leave people feeling angry or cheated by player agents, so the more tie breakers we have the better :)
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
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Post by Allan Houston on Jun 19, 2015 21:09:41 GMT -5
Are the following considerations factored in? (1) All things being equal, I think a player would want to stay where they are so as to avoid moving and disrupting their family's life. I know teams are given advantages to keep their own players, but if they don't take those advantages and offer the exact same contract as another team (with similar market size, playing time, etc.) I think the player stays put. (2) Players want to play for the team they rooted for growing up. We may not know who everyone rooted for, but we can use birthplace or high school location as a proxy. This definitely was a factor for LeBron, and we see it stated as a factor fairly often. Tobias Harris would like to come back to NY for example.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 21:30:02 GMT -5
If it's only 20% max then the player FA can certainly consider whatever they like in that 20%...
But, families & hometowns is a stretch.
(Don't forget RFA will most likely stay where they are so long as their own clubs sign the offersheet)
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Jun 19, 2015 21:35:07 GMT -5
I think those factors are at least as big if not bigger than market size, especially for the 97% of players who don't have a "brand" to worry about.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 22:03:11 GMT -5
I guess what I'm driving at here is all of this is such a small % of a small % that it'll probably never truly factor.
How often will a FA deal actually be completely tied in cash offered, years offered, playing time, chance to win a championship to then come down to factor in the 5% size of market (for a superstar) against the 3% hometown team?
tl;dr it's not a big enough deal to worry about & we can discuss when / if it ever happens
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Jun 19, 2015 22:18:54 GMT -5
Hometown teams can offer players coming off of rookie deals 5 year contracts instead of 4 year contracts making it more likely they will sign instead of accepting the qualifying offer so that they can be an unrestricted free agent in the next year.
It will be very very rare that a player would leave their hometown team if that owner has bird rights. Only when the GM breaks a promise or shows disloyalty (actively shopping a player or putting them on your trade block).
Things you do in this league have consequences. Inside the league office negotiations and posts are private, but you're expected to behave like a real like GM in the media center. You need to hold press conferences and talk about your team. If rumors leak or a player can see that they are on a trade block they would be less likely to resign. Show loyalty to your players and they will show loyalty to you. Player agents will use he search function to see posts where you've mentioned your player and the content there matters.
Lots of factors go into it. This type of league is a beautiful thing and something most of you aren't used to, you may find some of the rules imbalanced but just play along for a season or so until you have some experience and you will see why we do things the way we do :)
Tl;dr none of the people with experience playing this kind of league want to change the rules so maybe give it a try before calling for revolution, we can always implement or amend rules after a season.
I plan to run this league for 10 years so we're in it for the long haul no reason to be hasty now :)
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