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Post by Kylo Ren on Jul 15, 2015 12:45:14 GMT -5
I am going to be on my best behavior because of events in the past, but you have no idea who you are messing with me and I would suggest you stop insulting me because, frankly, I am a better GM than you are.
Regardless of whether you are, or are not, a better GM than me (who the fuck cares?), there is literally no valid opinion on saying Kevin Love is not elite. At no point in his real life career has he been anything but. He's a dominant post presence with arguably the best 3-ball from any big in the game, rebounds like crazy, does a little bit of everything and while his defense isn't anything to write home about, he's certainly nowhere near a net negative from it. Anyone willing to spend big on 13-14 James Harden or Damian Lillard would be crazy to say Kevin Love isn't elite. If you're willing to throw out bogus opinions with 0 facts to back them up, I reserve the right to "insult" you. Well you did "insult" me because you insinuated that I should never be a GM of a team. Obviously, you don't know me and you may have meant it in jest but it obviously constituted a derogatory comment directed at me. Yeah you are right; who cares whose the better GM. Rather, I said because I am not some stupid n00b who never watches basketball.
Lol, Love shot 37% from 3 last year and 36% for his career; not a number that I would call the "best in the league." As far as the other parts of your arguments, they are opinions based upon watching the game. When I, and I think its safe to say Paul Pierce, watch Kevin Love, he looks like utter crap. I am not sure he's capable of bending his knees, he just stands at the 3 point line on offense, and I honestly think the Cavs would be better off playing Lebron at the 4 and playing an extra guard over Love if they want to stretch the floor. Furthermore, Tristian Thompson is an ANIMAL and I cannot believe he went back to Cleveland to back up Kevin Love. In fact, the thought of it blows my mind and I agree with Pierce 220% when he said he would pick Thompson over Love.
Now, and similar to the Chris Bosh situation when he went from Toronto to Miami with Lebron, I never saw Kevin Love play with Minnesota. Maybe he's awesome statistically when he's the only player on his team, but the T-wolves stunk and I think him being the best player might be the best explanation for that. Unlike Bosh, however, I saw Love play in college at UCLA and did not like his game then.
You may like Kevin Love, and more power to you, but don't act like he's without question an elite player. I would MUCH RATHER take Lillard or Harden on my team than Kevin Love and it's not even close in my opinion. Therefore, hopefully that cleared the air between us and states Chicago's argument for this trade.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 15, 2015 13:02:21 GMT -5
Regardless of whether you are, or are not, a better GM than me (who the fuck cares?), there is literally no valid opinion on saying Kevin Love is not elite. At no point in his real life career has he been anything but. He's a dominant post presence with arguably the best 3-ball from any big in the game, rebounds like crazy, does a little bit of everything and while his defense isn't anything to write home about, he's certainly nowhere near a net negative from it. Anyone willing to spend big on 13-14 James Harden or Damian Lillard would be crazy to say Kevin Love isn't elite. If you're willing to throw out bogus opinions with 0 facts to back them up, I reserve the right to "insult" you. Well you did "insult" me because you insinuated that I should never be a GM of a team. Obviously, you don't know me and you may have meant it in jest but it obviously constituted a derogatory comment directed at me. Yeah you are right; who cares whose the better GM. Rather, I said because I am not some stupid n00b who never watches basketball.
Lol, Love shot 37% from 3 last year and 36% for his career; not a number that I would call the "best in the league." As far as the other parts of your arguments, they are opinions based upon watching the game. When I, and I think its safe to say Paul Pierce, watch Kevin Love, he looks like utter crap. I am not sure he's capable of bending his knees, he just stands at the 3 point line on offense, and I honestly think the Cavs would be better off playing Lebron at the 4 and playing an extra guard over Love if they want to stretch the floor. Furthermore, Tristian Thompson is an ANIMAL and I cannot believe he went back to Cleveland to back up Kevin Love. In fact, the thought of it blows my mind and I agree with Pierce 220% when he said he would pick Thompson over Love.
Now, and similar to the Chris Bosh situation when he went from Toronto to Miami with Lebron, I never saw Kevin Love play with Minnesota. Maybe he's awesome statistically when he's the only player on his team, but the T-wolves stunk and I think him being the best player might be the best explanation for that. Unlike Bosh, however, I saw Love play in college at UCLA and did not like his game then.
You may like Kevin Love, and more power to you, but don't act like he's without question an elite player. I would MUCH RATHER take Lillard or Harden on my team than Kevin Love and it's not even close in my opinion. Therefore, hopefully that cleared the air between us and states Chicago's argument for this trade.
37% last year and 36% career are great numbers from a PF/C. And honestly, if you never watched him in Minnesota you need to do your homework before forming an opinion. Kevin Love at UCLA wasn't anywhere near the top of his game. Overweight and lacking refinement. He was an absolute monster in Minnesota, not just statistically. The best team he ever had around him was the 13-14 team with Rubio, Kevin Martin, shit for SF, and Nikola Pekovic - aka basically hot garbage. If the first time in a young players career he's ever surrounded with a slightly mediocre roster leads to 40 wins in the West, Kevin Love definitely wasn't a guy that couldn't win. Give him at least one other super star, like every other good team in the West, and they jump to 50 wins immediately. But no, they traded him. And there is no way to know yet if they'll be better off for it, but getting 3 #1 overall picks surely won't hurt them in any way. And then the Cavaliers used Kevin Love the same way that a blind moron might have used Kevin Love - sit him at the 3 point line, where his great post moves and elite rebounding are completely neutralized, and never let the offense run through him, which is the best thing he brings to the team by far. If the had no intention of letting him play his game they shouldn't have traded for him, but not because he's not good enough to be there, just because they refused to let him be himself. Frankly, I'm astounded he chose to go back, but it's been indicated multiple times that they plan to run the offense through him a lot more so I'm guess that was part of the promise he get when he chose to recommit. Again, I don't give a fuck if you are a better GM than me, this is all just for fun. And honestly, I don't care that you don't like Kevin Love. You watched him at his absolute worst on that Cavs team, and he still brought so much to their game that they ended up limping to the finals without him, and ultimately losing because without him and Irving they didn't have the offensive firepower to make it happen. If the Cavs bring in a coach that can utilize Love's skills, or more likely if LeBron James can improve himself as a player-coach so as to actually utilize Love's skills, you'll be seeing the elite side of him that Minnesota fans got to see for multiple years, and this conversation will seem funny to both of us. Until then...
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Post by Kylo Ren on Jul 15, 2015 13:10:50 GMT -5
Well you did "insult" me because you insinuated that I should never be a GM of a team. Obviously, you don't know me and you may have meant it in jest but it obviously constituted a derogatory comment directed at me. Yeah you are right; who cares whose the better GM. Rather, I said because I am not some stupid n00b who never watches basketball.
Lol, Love shot 37% from 3 last year and 36% for his career; not a number that I would call the "best in the league." As far as the other parts of your arguments, they are opinions based upon watching the game. When I, and I think its safe to say Paul Pierce, watch Kevin Love, he looks like utter crap. I am not sure he's capable of bending his knees, he just stands at the 3 point line on offense, and I honestly think the Cavs would be better off playing Lebron at the 4 and playing an extra guard over Love if they want to stretch the floor. Furthermore, Tristian Thompson is an ANIMAL and I cannot believe he went back to Cleveland to back up Kevin Love. In fact, the thought of it blows my mind and I agree with Pierce 220% when he said he would pick Thompson over Love.
Now, and similar to the Chris Bosh situation when he went from Toronto to Miami with Lebron, I never saw Kevin Love play with Minnesota. Maybe he's awesome statistically when he's the only player on his team, but the T-wolves stunk and I think him being the best player might be the best explanation for that. Unlike Bosh, however, I saw Love play in college at UCLA and did not like his game then.
You may like Kevin Love, and more power to you, but don't act like he's without question an elite player. I would MUCH RATHER take Lillard or Harden on my team than Kevin Love and it's not even close in my opinion. Therefore, hopefully that cleared the air between us and states Chicago's argument for this trade.
37% last year and 36% career are great numbers from a PF/C. And honestly, if you never watched him in Minnesota you need to do your homework before forming an opinion. Kevin Love at UCLA wasn't anywhere near the top of his game. Overweight and lacking refinement. He was an absolute monster in Minnesota, not just statistically. The best team he ever had around him was the 13-14 team with Rubio, Kevin Martin, shit for SF, and Nikola Pekovic - aka basically hot garbage. If the first time in a young players career he's ever surrounded with a slightly mediocre roster leads to 40 wins in the West, Kevin Love definitely wasn't a guy that couldn't win. Give him at least one other super star, like every other good team in the West, and they jump to 50 wins immediately. But no, they traded him. And there is no way to know yet if they'll be better off for it, but getting 3 #1 overall picks surely won't hurt them in any way. And then the Cavaliers used Kevin Love the same way that a blind moron might have used Kevin Love - sit him at the 3 point line, where his great post moves and elite rebounding are completely neutralized, and never let the offense run through him, which is the best thing he brings to the team by far. If the had no intention of letting him play his game they shouldn't have traded for him, but not because he's not good enough to be there, just because they refused to let him be himself. Frankly, I'm astounded he chose to go back, but it's been indicated multiple times that they plan to run the offense through him a lot more so I'm guess that was part of the promise he get when he chose to recommit. Again, I don't give a fuck if you are a better GM than me, this is all just for fun. And honestly, I don't care that you don't like Kevin Love. You watched him at his absolute worst on that Cavs team, and he still brought so much to their game that they ended up limping to the finals without him, and ultimately losing because without him and Irving they didn't have the offensive firepower to make it happen. If the Cavs bring in a coach that can utilize Love's skills, or more likely if LeBron James can improve himself as a player-coach so as to actually utilize Love's skills, you'll be seeing the elite side of him that Minnesota fans got to see for multiple years, and this conversation will seem funny to both of us. Until then... I've watched Lebron on Cleveland, Miami, and then back in Cleveland he's always good. Harden looked good on both OKC and Houston. I just don't buy this argument because he's still the same guy.
Um, they have the greatest player in NBA history in Lebron James. Did the Bulls run their offense through Kukoc? I honestly seem similarities between Love and Kukoc. Ha, he's not the rebounder Tristian Thompson is nor will he ever be.
Lol, alright we'll see but I expect a Chris Bosh 2.0.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 15, 2015 13:43:34 GMT -5
37% last year and 36% career are great numbers from a PF/C. And honestly, if you never watched him in Minnesota you need to do your homework before forming an opinion. Kevin Love at UCLA wasn't anywhere near the top of his game. Overweight and lacking refinement. He was an absolute monster in Minnesota, not just statistically. The best team he ever had around him was the 13-14 team with Rubio, Kevin Martin, shit for SF, and Nikola Pekovic - aka basically hot garbage. If the first time in a young players career he's ever surrounded with a slightly mediocre roster leads to 40 wins in the West, Kevin Love definitely wasn't a guy that couldn't win. Give him at least one other super star, like every other good team in the West, and they jump to 50 wins immediately. But no, they traded him. And there is no way to know yet if they'll be better off for it, but getting 3 #1 overall picks surely won't hurt them in any way. And then the Cavaliers used Kevin Love the same way that a blind moron might have used Kevin Love - sit him at the 3 point line, where his great post moves and elite rebounding are completely neutralized, and never let the offense run through him, which is the best thing he brings to the team by far. If the had no intention of letting him play his game they shouldn't have traded for him, but not because he's not good enough to be there, just because they refused to let him be himself. Frankly, I'm astounded he chose to go back, but it's been indicated multiple times that they plan to run the offense through him a lot more so I'm guess that was part of the promise he get when he chose to recommit. Again, I don't give a fuck if you are a better GM than me, this is all just for fun. And honestly, I don't care that you don't like Kevin Love. You watched him at his absolute worst on that Cavs team, and he still brought so much to their game that they ended up limping to the finals without him, and ultimately losing because without him and Irving they didn't have the offensive firepower to make it happen. If the Cavs bring in a coach that can utilize Love's skills, or more likely if LeBron James can improve himself as a player-coach so as to actually utilize Love's skills, you'll be seeing the elite side of him that Minnesota fans got to see for multiple years, and this conversation will seem funny to both of us. Until then... I've watched Lebron on Cleveland, Miami, and then back in Cleveland he's always good. Harden looked good on both OKC and Houston. I just don't buy this argument because he's still the same guy.
Um, they have the greatest player in NBA history in Lebron James. Did the Bulls run their offense through Kukoc? I honestly seem similarities between Love and Kukoc. Ha, he's not the rebounder Tristian Thompson is nor will he ever be.
Lol, alright we'll see but I expect a Chris Bosh 2.0.
I didn't say Love was going to be their first option, just that when they need him to score points they give him the ball in the places he can be most effective (yes he's good from 3, but that's not the best or the only part of his game). If "LeBron James is the greatest player in NBA history" is a good reason to not give Love the opportunity to thrive, then why the fuck does the offense run through Kyrie so much? That argument makes no sense. Second, you're pointing at the best player in the league being the #1 option in CLE, MIA, and CLE respectively, and then James Harden going from being the 3rd option in OKC to the #1 option in HOU, and him being "good" both places (he turned into a statistical monster, just like Love, as soon as he turned into the #1 option on the Rockets. Love was every bit as effective for the Cavs as Harden was for the Thunder, and that's impressive because Harden's 6th man role meant he only ever played against the best SG on the opposing team in crunch time, which Love was having to face the other team's best PF every minute that he played. The only reason they benched Love in crunch time is, again, because they had no idea how to utilize the entirety of his offensive game effectively (a.k.a. not Love's fault, LeBron/Blatt's fault). And you're really gonna act like he's not the rebounder Tristan Thompson is?! Love averaged more rebounds per game than Tristan in Cleveland, and Thompson never took any 3s so he was naturally in a way better position virtually all of the time. It honestly seems like you're trying to relate K-Love's game to being the same player that David Lee is, except that's just straight up wrong. If Love was exactly like David Lee, then you'd be right: he would not be elite. But Love is better offensively and defensively than David Lee. Seriously, look at some stats man. LeBron James might be the best player in the world but he still hasn't ever figured out how to work alongside a dominant big man (a la Varejao, Bosh, Love, Mozgov) so that everybody's game shines through. I genuinely wish, as a fan of Kevin Love and his elite game, that Love had gone somewhere else this season. The Rockets would have been an astoundingly good fit, but Love was probably too scared to go back to the West knowing he wouldn't have a guaranteed trip back to the Finals like he does in the shitty East (and rightly so, with Golden State still around and after watching the moves San Antonio made, the West goes through those two teams and there's no question about it). Either way, man. I'm not interested in continuing this conversation with you. If you didn't ever watch Love when he was at his best, you don't have any of the evidence you'd need to back up a claim that he's not elite. I don't mind your opinion, but respectfully, it's not informed enough to be valid.
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Post by Kylo Ren on Jul 15, 2015 13:59:08 GMT -5
Respectfully, you didn't watch him in Cleveland. Is he capable of bending his knees? I watched his knees for a whole quarter just to see if they ever bent.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 15, 2015 17:11:19 GMT -5
Respectfully, you didn't watch him in Cleveland. Is he capable of bending his knees? I watched his knees for a whole quarter just to see if they ever bent. I watched him plenty in Cleveland.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 15, 2015 17:18:24 GMT -5
Can he bend his knees? You tell me:
C'mon son. Stupidest shit I've ever heard.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 15, 2015 17:23:20 GMT -5
Usage rates aren't exactly a perfect stat, but regardless: Kevin Love had a usage rate outside of the top 120 players in the NBA last season as one of probably the top 20 most talented offensive players in the game.
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Post by Donald Trump on Jul 15, 2015 17:57:16 GMT -5
tristan thompson and love has the same hustle, rebounding but thompson brings nothing to the offense..k love's defense is blown out of the proportion.. im surprised some people thought tt is better than love.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 4:13:40 GMT -5
Hop over to D5 and you can read millions and millions of Kevin Love hate posts ;)
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Post by Kylo Ren on Jul 16, 2015 9:16:09 GMT -5
Lol, I watched some of that video and I still not sure he can bend his knees. People that think Tristian Thompson is "as good with Love but without offense" are really misguided.
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Post by Tony Stark on Jul 16, 2015 9:50:15 GMT -5
Love is an elite player. End of story.
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Post by Donald Trump on Jul 16, 2015 9:54:56 GMT -5
all i know is one of the reasons cavs lost is because they have no real consisten offensive threat aside from bron..k love could have provided what tt brought while also filling that huge offensivegap..
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Post by Kylo Ren on Jul 16, 2015 10:00:02 GMT -5
all i know is one of the reasons cavs lost is because they have no real consisten offensive threat aside from bron..k love could have provided what tt brought while also filling that huge offensivegap..
I don't disagree, but they rolled with Kyrie, Lebron, and three guys who played defense and rebounded the ball. Therefore, Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>> Love, Kyrie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Delly.
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Post by Tony Stark on Jul 16, 2015 10:19:16 GMT -5
all i know is one of the reasons cavs lost is because they have no real consisten offensive threat aside from bron..k love could have provided what tt brought while also filling that huge offensivegap..
I don't disagree, but they rolled with Kyrie, Lebron, and three guys who played defense and rebounded the ball. Therefore, Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>> Love, Kyrie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Delly.
It's because they have that guy named LeBron
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 16, 2015 12:09:09 GMT -5
Lol, I watched some of that video and I still not sure he can bend his knees. People that think Tristian Thompson is "as good with Love but without offense" are really misguided. Then you need to get your eyes checked, bud.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jul 16, 2015 12:12:53 GMT -5
Literally only one question need be asked here... Did the Cavs pay Kevin Love max money to stay in Cleveland? If yes, then he's elite.
The Cavs are bringing back Tristan Thompson regardless, but to bring back both they'll be paying out the ass in luxury taxes. If Love isn't elite, why pay him max money and spend hundreds of millions on luxury tax payments if Love isn't worth it? The way they used him last year, they might as well have brought in a guy like Channing Frye, kept Wiggins, and saved a ton of cash. (Could be easily argued this is a better option anyway if they never end up utilizing Love's skills to their full potential, but Love's game could elevate then way beyond this). Since they didn't do that, they must, correctly, see something in Love that your eyes cannot see.
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Post by Kylo Ren on Jul 16, 2015 17:16:13 GMT -5
Cleveland possesses a history of making dumb roster moves, so I am not sure that's any proof its a smart move. Then again, I do need new glasses so maybe you are right? To be honest, I don't think you or anyone that likes Love watched the same games I did. Just remember this thread when Love stinks again this year.
PS. I said at the time that the Cavs should have kept Wiggins instead of trading for Love.
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jul 17, 2015 11:22:17 GMT -5
Cleveland possesses a history of making dumb roster moves, so I am not sure that's any proof its a smart move. Then again, I do need new glasses so maybe you are right? To be honest, I don't think you or anyone that likes Love watched the same games I did. Just remember this thread when Love stinks again this year. PS. I said at the time that the Cavs should have kept Wiggins instead of trading for Love. These are not the prospects you are looking for. *Milt Newton and Flip Saunders wave their hands*
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