Red Auerbach
Boston Celtics
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Post by Red Auerbach on Aug 7, 2015 11:01:21 GMT -5
Boston Celtics Trade: PF 67 David West $12,000,000 - $12,600,000 GF 66 Arron Afflalo $7,362,500 - $7,362,500 SG 56 Jason Terry $5,450,000 $24,812,500
Toronto Raptors Trade: SG 71 Kobe Bryant $23,500,000 - $25,000,000 C 64 Enes Kanter $6,008,106 - $7,882,663 $29,008,106
$29,008,106 x 1.25 = $23,206,485 $24,812,500 > $23,206,485
I accept this trade. I have to give away a lot of cap flexibility for next offseason. However, I get a young developing center in Kanter and a future Hall of Famer in Bryant. I liked watching Kanter develop this past season in Oklahoma City. Hoping that Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, and Kanter can develop into a juggernaut. Kobe is Kobe. Hopefully Thomas, Westbrook, and Kobe can find enough shots to share.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 7, 2015 12:39:19 GMT -5
I accept. This trade rids me of Kobe's contract, gives me a fair replacement in Afflalo (I think my offense will be better without all of Kobe's attempts), it gives me a two way big and a depth guy.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 7, 2015 14:24:56 GMT -5
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 7, 2015 15:04:05 GMT -5
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 7, 2015 15:05:37 GMT -5
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 7, 2015 18:47:13 GMT -5
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Post by Donald Trump on Aug 7, 2015 23:10:43 GMT -5
i accept.. fair trade in terms of value and I can't wait to see the results of kobe + westbrook playing together
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 8, 2015 1:05:33 GMT -5
I hate the trade for Toronto... Kanter is the only young player in the trade, and one on an RFA contract at that... he's naturally, in my opinion, the most valuable asset in the trade. On top of that, letting go of Kobe for a less than ideal return when the entire point of trading for him was to help bring you a championship despite his salary... just seems like a giant loss. Being too anxious to wait out this season and try to move him as an expiring (when he'll be far easier to trade) seems to be really biting you in the butt here. I like David West, and fantasy-drafted Afflalo, so clearly I don't hold any ill will or excessively negative opinions for the players here. But the two most valuable pieces coming from one side is obviously a bad trade, and the trade hurts the long term stability of Toronto without drastically improving them in the short term. The only expiring player on the roster that will be hard to lose is Chandler, but Kanter plays the same position and will be worth starting probably within a year. Not to mention the cap will be 70M, and dropping Kobe's 25M salary at any point between now and Free Agency (which, again, he's easier to move as an expiring) would give Toronto almost an entire 20M to work with on resigning Kanter, so looking at cap space as the driving reason for this trade seems short-sighted as well.
I Reject.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 8, 2015 1:46:38 GMT -5
Just for the record: I have no plans on resigning Kanter, he is pretty good, but a defensife turnstile. On top of that, he'll command a max or near max that I won't pay, because I think I should be able to get a player that is great on both ends of the floor with that money.
Kobe is a good player, but sooo inefficient on offense and is taking a lot of shots that could go to CP3 or Klay, both more reliable options. I think Afflalo is more ideal for that third scoring option, because he is more efficient and demands less touches.
If you look at my roster, you'll see my third and last big is Tony Mitchell, who I don't want getting much minutes. So, I don't want one of my two rotation bigs to be only offense. Getting West is an overall improvement of three, but a lot more when you consider that he plays D. Plus I get Jason Terry, someone who I can play a little.
So I think this trade makes me better, but you are of course entitled to your vote and I can't expect that to change, just thought I'd make my case.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 8, 2015 3:57:28 GMT -5
You make some good points (I don't think that having no desire to offer Kanter a near max as an offense-only player is an opinion that needs much defending), but:
A) Kanter is still young, he's not 100% a lost cause as a defender just yet, and his offensive value is *very* good. B) The drop off from Kobe's rating to Afflalo's is too large for me to think that fitting your system better will actually translate to more success. C) Whether or not you feel like the proposed players improve your team, I believe that the team offering the best piece(s) in a trade should have the leverage to demand appropriate value. Letting go of Kobe and Kanter simultaneously without picking up a single player with Bird Rights or anyone under the age of 29, you'd be hard pressed to convince me you're not losing that trade.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 8, 2015 15:20:10 GMT -5
A) It doesn't matter to me that Kanter is young because I can win a championship this season. Also, people aren't clamoring to trade for a guy that they don't know they'll be able to resign.
B) I get a downgrade of five at SF, but better fit. And an upgrade of four and better fit at PF. Plus another rotation player.
C) I probably can't change your mind on this one, but my philosophy is that I might actually be able to resign one of these guys on a cheapish deal because they are old and undervalued in this league, and still have room to sign a top teir free agent. I don't think Kanter's expiring gives me much leverage because he has such a large theoretical cap hold and who ever gets him has no way to be sure they can retain him. Not very many folks are trying to get Kobe, either.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 8, 2015 16:40:50 GMT -5
A) It doesn't matter to me that Kanter is young because I can win a championship this season. Also, people aren't clamoring to trade for a guy that they don't know they'll be able to resign. B) I get a downgrade of five at SF, but better fit. And an upgrade of four and better fit at PF. Plus another rotation player. C) I probably can't change your mind on this one, but my philosophy is that I might actually be able to resign one of these guys on a cheapish deal because they are old and undervalued in this league, and still have room to sign a top teir free agent. I don't think Kanter's expiring gives me much leverage because he has such a large theoretical cap hold and who ever gets him has no way to be sure they can retain him. Not very many folks are trying to get Kobe, either. Kanter is a restricted free agent. It's literally the only kind of contract that makes sure whoever trades for him is guaranteed to be able to retain him. And in light of the fact that you have a very good chance at winning without making this trade, I just don't think it's in your best interest to give up one of your only young, long-term players without getting any kind of return of young players and/or picks that could help alleviate some of the turnover you're bound to experience when your old players get too old to be effective or retire.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 8, 2015 17:00:01 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, we only have bird rights over players that we've had for three or more years, right?
I know that bird rights and RFA are technically different but since in the case of rookies they go hand in hand I assumed RFA status is contingent on bird rights. Am I mistaken?
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 8, 2015 17:22:51 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, we only have bird rights over players that we've had for three or more years, right? I know that bird rights and RFA are technically different but since in the case of rookies they go hand in hand I assumed RFA status is contingent on bird rights. Am I mistaken? Yes. You can match any offer another team makes Kanter and keep him.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 8, 2015 17:26:06 GMT -5
Oh, well shit.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 8, 2015 17:27:05 GMT -5
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Post by John Stockton on Aug 8, 2015 17:50:28 GMT -5
but youre over cap and you cant sign him without bird rights unless you make room
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 8, 2015 17:59:30 GMT -5
Yes.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 8, 2015 18:41:12 GMT -5
but youre over cap and you cant sign him without bird rights unless you make room Which, as I said, win a championship with Kobe and trade him for whatever you can find after the season when he's actually expiring and won't be so damn hard to move. If I recall correctly, he's got enough expendable team options that he could easily make more than enough room for Kanter if he wanted to keep him... And I understand if he doesn't want to keep Kanter, but at least trade him away for someone else that's young so the team has some semblance of a future on contract.
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Post by John Stockton on Aug 8, 2015 18:58:42 GMT -5
i agree he could get more value for kanter but i dont think its rejectable for what he does get. i accept.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 8, 2015 22:22:53 GMT -5
Well I guess now that I know that I'd rather not do this trade but I'm prepared to follow through as well obviously, seeing as it's not my choice.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 9, 2015 1:54:12 GMT -5
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Post by Blake Bowman on Aug 9, 2015 10:14:54 GMT -5
Reject
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Post by Stan Van Gundy on Aug 9, 2015 12:57:46 GMT -5
Wrong computation . 29,008,106x1.25 is not equal to 23,206,485 the correct answer is 36,260,132.5
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 9, 2015 13:06:35 GMT -5
Wrong computation . 29,008,106x1.25 is not equal to 23,206,485 the correct answer is 36,260,132.5 Your math isn't wrong, but he's actually correct in his computation. He should have written "29,008,106x100/125" instead of "29,008,106x1.25", but the number he came up with was the right one and the trade does indeed fit in the 125% rule.
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Reggie Miller
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Reggie Miller on Aug 9, 2015 19:49:31 GMT -5
I also I accept.. I don't see enough reason to not accept this
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Post by Keith Van Horn on Aug 9, 2015 21:31:54 GMT -5
I accept. I like this for Scal. Gets rid of Bryant at the cost of kanter, who, imo, isn't much and won't be worth the money he gets.
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Post by Blake Bowman on Aug 9, 2015 23:15:25 GMT -5
Wrong computation . 29,008,106x1.25 is not equal to 23,206,485 the correct answer is 36,260,132.5 Your math isn't wrong, but he's actually correct in his computation. He should have written "29,008,106x100/125" instead of "29,008,106x1.25", but the number he came up with was the right one and the trade does indeed fit in the 125% rule. nigga do you even math?
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Post by Stan Van Gundy on Aug 9, 2015 23:43:22 GMT -5
Wrong computation . 29,008,106x1.25 is not equal to 23,206,485 the correct answer is 36,260,132.5 Your math isn't wrong, but he's actually correct in his computation. He should have written "29,008,106x100/125" instead of "29,008,106x1.25", but the number he came up with was the right one and the trade does indeed fit in the 125% rule. actually he is wrong either.typographic error and calculation error.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
Posts: 2,918
Likes: 2,107
Total Bank: 50,500
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 10, 2015 0:10:08 GMT -5
Your math isn't wrong, but he's actually correct in his computation. He should have written "29,008,106x100/125" instead of "29,008,106x1.25", but the number he came up with was the right one and the trade does indeed fit in the 125% rule. nigga do you even math? Clearly I do.
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