billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 9, 2018 10:44:41 GMT -5
yes it should, the worst teams from last year need more help then the teams that are elite. I mean there is the draft and FA, and potential trades to improve, but I digress. I don't think last year's standings are "right" in ranking best->worst teams for usage in waiver rankings. However, I believe it'll reward the worse teams more often than a completely random system.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 9, 2018 12:31:57 GMT -5
I mean there is the draft and FA, and potential trades to improve, but I digress. I don't think last year's standings are "right" in ranking best->worst teams for usage in waiver rankings. However, I believe it'll reward the worse teams more often than a completely random system. Chill. Now let's hear where you're at about buyouts, silent one. I'd love to hear your and Allan Houston 's thoughts on it, as well as Steve Jobs --preferably in the media center post.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Aug 9, 2018 13:18:32 GMT -5
I don't think last year's standings are "right" in ranking best->worst teams for usage in waiver rankings. However, I believe it'll reward the worse teams more often than a completely random system. Chill. Now let's hear where you're at about buyouts, silent one. I'd love to hear your and Allan Houston 's thoughts on it, as well as Steve Jobs --preferably in the media center post. Wow. My opinion is just worth an “as well as...” addendum to you? Pretty fuckin’ rude, Brian. Pretty fuckin’ rude.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Aug 9, 2018 15:50:39 GMT -5
I don't think last year's standings are "right" in ranking best->worst teams for usage in waiver rankings. However, I believe it'll reward the worse teams more often than a completely random system. Chill. Now let's hear where you're at about buyouts, silent one. I'd love to hear your and Allan Houston 's thoughts on it, as well as Steve Jobs --preferably in the media center post. The response is currently being discussed
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 9, 2018 16:30:08 GMT -5
Chill. Now let's hear where you're at about buyouts, silent one. I'd love to hear your and Allan Houston 's thoughts on it, as well as Steve Jobs --preferably in the media center post. The response is currently being discussed Eeeeyyyy I like that Thanks for being a just and open minded ruler
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Aug 11, 2018 22:17:33 GMT -5
I guess I'll weigh in. I will preface with the caveat that I feel like I could more deeply consider the consequences of the policy regarding buyouts, because I'm just not certain what I believe to be the best option.
My basic grounding is that tanking, to some degree, is a problem. I think the degree to which it is a problem in the NBA is overblown, though it's clear the NBA does want to mitigate it. And it's clear that tanking here is much more prominent here than in the NBA. I especially want to avoid a league where there are two clear classes of team, each playing an entirely different equilibrium of, on the one hand, tanking, and, on the other, contending. I think it's best for the league if there's a spectrum between the strategies rather than a partition.
Now, I do think that the main policy force behind tanking is the draft, and while I think there are reasonable fixes to that, I don;t think they're going to be implemented here or in the NBA. But another mechanism which separates the two strategies mentioned above is trading. Tanking and contending teams can use their comparative advantage to make mutually beneficial trades, by which one team trades future assets for salary relief. I think that's great; trading is the engine of any good game, it's great to identify comparative advantage to make mutually beneficial moves. But in this particular case, I think that these types of trades, taken to their logical extreme, drive us in the long run towards the two class scenario I think we should avoid.
Hence, I think it's very much a balancing act. Deregulating the buyout market would make it much more likely that these types of trades happen. While I applaud Scal's commitment to building through the draft, I fear a scenario where we have multiple teams attempting that strategy, some of whom may be helmed by GMs less committed to sticking around for the long term.
So, I think some regulation is important. Is a three year limit the optimal regulation? Almost certainly not, but I think it's likely better than nothing.
And while I'm not addressing Scal point by point (maybe I should but I'm lazy), I appreciate the consideration that it would allow teams to get off the treadmill, so to speak. While I want to encourage a spectrum of strategies, I understand that some teams will be stuck in the middle merely by the fact that they have a pretty good player on an albatross contract. You have to play him and win some games, but he impacts your books to the point where you're never going to win a championship.
That sucks, but I actually think that that provides an important deterrence factor. Teams will be less hesitant to overpay a coveted free agent if they know that, in the case where it doesn't work out, they can trade him to a tanking team who will buy him out. Now, that logic didn't work out super well in 2016 and, to a lesser degree, in 2017, but it seems like those off-seasons are going to be historical outliers. There shouldn't be as many albatross contracts going forward as there have been, not to mention that they get filtered out more often in our league thanks to the new GM amnesty.
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Aug 11, 2018 22:20:17 GMT -5
Now, to address my positive stance with regards to this policy. I don't think the three year restriction has been too restrictive, but maybe I'm ignorant as a clearly competing team.
The alternative that I've been floating in my head is that you can buyout any time, but you can only consolidate up to the player;s maximum salary. Any additional salary can be consolidated into the next year up to the max, iterated.
Again, not sure if that's the optimal solution. But those are my thoughts so far.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 11, 2018 22:34:57 GMT -5
Alan, do you not think that cap space itself is a good enough regulator of buy outs? IE, I'm the team with the most cap space in the league, so right now I could buy out JR Smith, but not much else.
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Aug 11, 2018 22:57:59 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. I'm fine with you in particular making such a move. I'm confident you have a plan and will stick around. But as a policy, I'm less confident that it's a good enough regulator. I could imagine a team abusing it. And more importantly, I don't think that addresses the deterrence effect enough. I want salary dumps to be pretty restricted.
You could buy out JR. Or you (in theory) could take on a couple more albatross contracts for massive draft gains, and then buy each of the contracts out over the next 2-3 years as your rookie contracts develop.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 12, 2018 2:24:47 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. I'm fine with you in particular making such a move. I'm confident you have a plan and will stick around. But as a policy, I'm less confident that it's a good enough regulator. I could imagine a team abusing it. And more importantly, I don't think that addresses the deterrence effect enough. I want salary dumps to be pretty restricted. You could buy out JR. Or you (in theory) could take on a couple more albatross contracts for massive draft gains, and then buy each of the contracts out over the next 2-3 years as your rookie contracts develop. See, but if I were to take on even one true albatross, I wouldn't have space to buy out either contract. JR, for example, would cost about 40 mil, and that's only a mid tier albatross imo. So if I were going to buy out another, I wouldn't be able to take it on until the draft and buy it out the following season. I don't really know who's right here, but since buyouts are 100%, even a team like mine can only really buy out one big contract a year, and I'm pretty sure I have the most cap space in the league. So considering that, I don't think that buyouts blow up if they're unrestricted, we'd just see them more often. Probably 2 or 3 a year if I had to guess, which is about on pace with the NBA.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 12, 2018 2:32:32 GMT -5
Just occurred to me--IF the league powers that be decide to still restrict buyouts but make the rules less restricting--maybe total money bought out would be a factor.
As in, it would be frivolous and unrealistic for me to buyout Ty Wallace because his contract is so small that irl he would just be waived if the team no longer wants him (and irl, he wouldn't be willing to leave any money on the table because he makes so little, so the team/agent would never reach an agreement)
But the D Wade, Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Carmelo types on bigger contracts DO get bought out. Maybe there should be a minimum total salary that makes a player eligible to be bought out.
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Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Oct 18, 2018 4:55:34 GMT -5
Question about the bolded part.. Is there any consideration in this for certain circumstances? Let's say a non-playoff team shuts down their player for rest of the season (like 10 games) for some relatively minor injury just to tank harder. But in an good team that injury would not be "season ending" because the player would only get some rest to be ready for first round of playoffs.
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Shaq O'Neal
LA Clippers
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Post by Shaq O'Neal on Jan 6, 2019 7:51:53 GMT -5
What does CHO stand for in draft rights?
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jan 6, 2019 7:56:57 GMT -5
What does CHO stand for in draft rights? means the Charlotte Hornets owns the pick
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Shaq O'Neal
LA Clippers
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Post by Shaq O'Neal on Jan 6, 2019 7:58:37 GMT -5
What does CHO stand for in draft rights? means the Charlotte Hornets owns the pick I thought CHA would be the Hornets...Thanks though
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Scott Pilgrim
Philadelphia 76ers
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Post by Scott Pilgrim on Jan 6, 2019 8:36:00 GMT -5
What does CHO stand for in draft rights? means the Charlotte Hornets owns the pick Looked through the forums and saw that they got a trade queued, for some of their decent young players for Cousins on Dec 15. Does that LAC-POR trade still go through dispite Greek not being there and not being the one who accepted it? Doesn’t seem wise for him to do it at the current team’s state.
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jan 6, 2019 9:01:37 GMT -5
means the Charlotte Hornets owns the pick Looked through the forums and saw that they got a trade queued, for some of their decent young players for Cousins on Dec 15. Does that LAC-POR trade still go through dispite Greek not being there and not being the one who accepted it? Doesn’t seem wise for him to do it at the current team’s state. not so sure about that but it was already agreed upon way back when and the trade was deemed acceptable.
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Scott Pilgrim
Philadelphia 76ers
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Post by Scott Pilgrim on Jan 6, 2019 9:27:46 GMT -5
It’s a weird situation, I think he should be given the choice to cancel it, I mean they’re in no position to compete right now and they don’t need 1/3rd of a season of Cousins or his bird rights. (They have cap space).
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jan 6, 2019 9:29:15 GMT -5
It’s a weird situation, I think he should be given the choice to cancel it, I mean they’re in no position to compete right now and they don’t need 1/3rd of a season of Cousins or his bird rights. (They have cap space). not up to me
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Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Jan 6, 2019 9:49:18 GMT -5
Looked through the forums and saw that they got a trade queued, for some of their decent young players for Cousins on Dec 15. Does that LAC-POR trade still go through dispite Greek not being there and not being the one who accepted it? Doesn’t seem wise for him to do it at the current team’s state. not so sure about that but it was already agreed upon way back when and the trade was deemed acceptable. Yeah. I don't see this could be cancelled at this point since it has been approved a long time ago. And basically will be finally processed like in a week before the "trial"time of the new GM has even finished.
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Nino Brown
Cleveland Cavaliers
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Post by Nino Brown on Jan 6, 2019 12:02:01 GMT -5
It’s a weird situation, I think he should be given the choice to cancel it, I mean they’re in no position to compete right now and they don’t need 1/3rd of a season of Cousins or his bird rights. (They have cap space). irl gms don’t get to cancel and reverse trades based on the past indescretions of former gms before they take over a team.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Jan 6, 2019 12:06:07 GMT -5
They don't queue trades in real life though. But I agree it would be unfair for Duncan because this trade was done 5 months ago and he has been planning his team with this in mind since then.
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Nino Brown
Cleveland Cavaliers
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Post by Nino Brown on Jan 6, 2019 12:30:48 GMT -5
They don't queue trades in real life though. But I agree it would be unfair for Duncan because this trade was done 5 months ago and he has been planning his team with this in mind since then. well I thought trades only queded in result of D720 rules? This leagues seems to follow the real nba to a tee in most cases
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Shaq O'Neal
LA Clippers
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Post by Shaq O'Neal on Jan 6, 2019 13:04:50 GMT -5
When is the trade deadline?
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Jan 6, 2019 13:08:18 GMT -5
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Shaq O'Neal
LA Clippers
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Post by Shaq O'Neal on Jan 6, 2019 13:11:41 GMT -5
So basically we can trade the whole season right provided we dont make the playoffs and not including expiring contracts
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Shaq O'Neal
LA Clippers
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Post by Shaq O'Neal on Jan 7, 2019 1:42:19 GMT -5
Is there a period that i have to wait and after that only i can start trading? If so then what is it
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jan 7, 2019 3:31:59 GMT -5
Is there a period that i have to wait and after that only i can start trading? If so then what is it 7 days after you signed up
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Shaq O'Neal
LA Clippers
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Post by Shaq O'Neal on Jan 8, 2019 10:53:01 GMT -5
if i amnesty a contract could i sign him again for a smaller contract.if yes then how?
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Nino Brown
Cleveland Cavaliers
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Post by Nino Brown on Jan 8, 2019 11:36:21 GMT -5
if i amnesty a contract could i sign him again for a smaller contract.if yes then how? no because resigning him would defeat the purpose of the amnesty
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