Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Jun 10, 2020 10:14:34 GMT -5
Considering we don’t pay actual money whenever we’re over the luxury tax, I don’t think there’s any other option than to charge the Luxury Tax Penalty to the Cap Space as some sort of “balancing” the in keeping it competitive. Also, our Luxury Tax Penalty is based on the previous year’s salary cap, so it’s not really 10% of the current year’s. Normally, the salary cap rises every year. I see the point in your second sentence. That's true although I'm not sure if we are going to see such big jumps in cap than in previous years in long time. So it won't be huge difference.
With the first point I disagree. True, we can't fully mimic the real life luxury tax payment, since we don't use actual money. But at least my interpretation of implementing our rule, was that we just make it impossible to stay longer than 2-3 years in the grey area between luxury tax and hard cap, as that would be unrealistic. Without any penalty, a team could do it indefinitely. I was just saying, that we could accomplish that also by my suggestion of only adding the penalty at the end of off-season. There would be no need for punish the team also in FA for previous years luxury tax to achieve this.
But seems like no one else sees any issue with this (or half of the GM's don't care :D ) So I'm not gonna argue about it anymore.
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jun 10, 2020 10:26:41 GMT -5
Considering we don’t pay actual money whenever we’re over the luxury tax, I don’t think there’s any other option than to charge the Luxury Tax Penalty to the Cap Space as some sort of “balancing” the in keeping it competitive. Also, our Luxury Tax Penalty is based on the previous year’s salary cap, so it’s not really 10% of the current year’s. Normally, the salary cap rises every year. I see the point in your second sentence. That's true although I'm not sure if we are going to see such big jumps in cap than in previous years in long time. So it won't be huge difference.
With the first point I disagree. True, we can't fully mimic the real life luxury tax payment, since we don't use actual money. But at least my interpretation of implementing our rule, was that we just make it impossible to stay longer than 2-3 years in the grey area between luxury tax and hard cap, as that would be unrealistic. Without any penalty, a team could do it indefinitely. I was just saying, that we could accomplish that also by my suggestion of only adding the penalty at the end of off-season. There would be no need for punish the team also in FA for previous years luxury tax to achieve this.
But seems like no one else sees any issue with this (or half of the GM's don't care :D ) So I'm not gonna argue about it anymore.
The thing you’re fundamentally off on is the “punish the team... for previous year’s luxury tax” bit. - Last year you were over the luxury tax line. - THIS year you’re being penalized by paying the luxury tax, 10% of last year’s cap, for being over the line. If it kicked in at the end of the offseason, it would pretty much completely fail to penalize anyone for being over the luxury tax line the previous year since they can do all sorts of signing / team building and then just trade/stretch whatever salary doesn’t fit under the ~140% hard cap by the end of the offseason. I get it, I just don’t agree with it. It would tremendously benefit anyone who set themselves up to have cap space but expected to be a contender the next year anyway, while failing to adequately punish most of the the offenders adequately until they were repeat taxpayers. The aim of the luxury tax is to push people to avoid being in the tax at all whenever possible.
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Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Jun 10, 2020 10:53:34 GMT -5
I don't think the point should be to push people avoiding luxury tax altogether. Basically every contender in NBA is willing to do that for 1-2 years max, but not more. Length of being over tax line should be more the point to avoid.
After getting repeater penalty, you are effectively only being able to have contracts up to 105% of salary cap for the following 3rd season, since you will be getting +20% as penalty and anything more would be again over the 125% line for third year in row.. and the 30% penalty would be massive and not really realistic to manage for anyone even for one season.
So the penalty is that repeater teams are only capable of using 105% of the cap for your actual contracts. Instead of up to 149% for teams coming from no penalty. That can be a difference of ability to have one extra max player in roster, which is quite huge in my opinion
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Steve Jobs
Oklahoma City Thunder
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Post by Steve Jobs on Jun 10, 2020 10:58:42 GMT -5
I don't think the point should be to push people avoiding luxury tax altogether. Basically every contender in NBA is willing to do that for 1-2 years max, but not more. Length of being over tax line should be more the point to avoid. After getting repeater penalty, you are effectively only being able to have contracts up to 105% of salary cap for the following 3rd season, since you will be getting +20% as penalty and anything more would be again over the 125% line for third year in row.. and the 30% penalty would be massive and not really realistic to manage for anyone even for one season. So the penalty is that repeater teams are only capable of using 105% of the cap for your actual contracts. Instead of up to 149% for teams coming from no penalty. That can be a difference of ability to have one extra max player in roster, which is quite huge in my opinion You’re correct. The extremely restrictive 2 and 3 year repeater penalty is made to be so. But the luxury tax exists IRL to push teams to limit their spending over the soft cap whenever possible. Only teams with legitimate contender aspirations will consider pushing into the luxury tax for any given year, and being hit with a repeater penalty magnifies it until you’re forced to play along or go broke. Since “Go Broke” isn’t an option here, the hard cap and appropriate restrictive penalties per year over the luxury tax line play that same role. One year is feasible but hurts, two is pretty much out of the question but not entirely impossible, and anything beyond that if you haven’t gotten the hint yet you better be winning titles left and right or be prepared to get fired.
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Paul Pierce
Chicago Bulls
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Post by Paul Pierce on Jun 10, 2020 14:23:11 GMT -5
I don't think the point should be to push people avoiding luxury tax altogether. Basically every contender in NBA is willing to do that for 1-2 years max, but not more. Length of being over tax line should be more the point to avoid. After getting repeater penalty, you are effectively only being able to have contracts up to 105% of salary cap for the following 3rd season, since you will be getting +20% as penalty and anything more would be again over the 125% line for third year in row.. and the 30% penalty would be massive and not really realistic to manage for anyone even for one season. So the penalty is that repeater teams are only capable of using 105% of the cap for your actual contracts. Instead of up to 149% for teams coming from no penalty. That can be a difference of ability to have one extra max player in roster, which is quite huge in my opinion You’re correct. The extremely restrictive 2 and 3 year repeater penalty is made to be so. But the luxury tax exists IRL to push teams to limit their spending over the soft cap whenever possible. Only teams with legitimate contender aspirations will consider pushing into the luxury tax for any given year, and being hit with a repeater penalty magnifies it until you’re forced to play along or go broke. Since “Go Broke” isn’t an option here, the hard cap and appropriate restrictive penalties per year over the luxury tax line play that same role. One year is feasible but hurts, two is pretty much out of the question but not entirely impossible, and anything beyond that if you haven’t gotten the hint yet you better be winning titles left and right or be prepared to get fired. The thunder got rid of harden after making an nba finals with a super young core. Basically fucked up their franchise because they feared the luxury tax so much. I like the way we handle it here since I think this is the best way to punish people since we don’t have real $ involved
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jun 10, 2020 23:21:47 GMT -5
Considering we don’t pay actual money whenever we’re over the luxury tax, I don’t think there’s any other option than to charge the Luxury Tax Penalty to the Cap Space as some sort of “balancing” the in keeping it competitive. Also, our Luxury Tax Penalty is based on the previous year’s salary cap, so it’s not really 10% of the current year’s. Normally, the salary cap rises every year. I see the point in your second sentence. That's true although I'm not sure if we are going to see such big jumps in cap than in previous years in long time. So it won't be huge difference.
With the first point I disagree. True, we can't fully mimic the real life luxury tax payment, since we don't use actual money. But at least my interpretation of implementing our rule, was that we just make it impossible to stay longer than 2-3 years in the grey area between luxury tax and hard cap, as that would be unrealistic. Without any penalty, a team could do it indefinitely. I was just saying, that we could accomplish that also by my suggestion of only adding the penalty at the end of off-season. There would be no need for punish the team also in FA for previous years luxury tax to achieve this.
But seems like no one else sees any issue with this (or half of the GM's don't care :D ) So I'm not gonna argue about it anymore.
adding the penalty after the off-season wouldn’t make any sense. It is harder to project salaries if we do it that way, especially if the team being penalized will sign players during the offseason only to be told they are over the Hard Cap once the penalty is imposed. However, if we put the penalty before the offseason, the team being penalized wouldn’t have to deal with such issue. Essentially, if you’re penalized by the luxury tax and is over the cap, you can only sign players whose Bird Rights you hold.
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Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Jun 11, 2020 9:36:45 GMT -5
adding the penalty after the off-season wouldn’t make any sense. It is harder to project salaries if we do it that way, especially if the team being penalized will sign players during the offseason only to be told they are over the Hard Cap once the penalty is imposed. However, if we put the penalty before the offseason, the team being penalized wouldn’t have to deal with such issue. Essentially, if you’re penalized by the luxury tax and is over the cap, you can only sign players whose Bird Rights you hold. I mean when you are resigning your own RFA's, the new contract is also going to be implemented only in the end of off-season, so you need to keep track of that yourself and deal with such issues... and I'm not sure if we still add also the salaries of 1st round draft picks only at the end of off-season or did it change this year. But that is something to track and plan for also yourself.
So, it's already kind of a minimum requirement of a GM to keep track of their own cap space in some kind of spreadsheet. If you are just blindly follow the roster page that is updated with delay, and keep signing FA's, you are going to have a bad time :D
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jun 11, 2020 9:44:04 GMT -5
adding the penalty after the off-season wouldn’t make any sense. It is harder to project salaries if we do it that way, especially if the team being penalized will sign players during the offseason only to be told they are over the Hard Cap once the penalty is imposed. However, if we put the penalty before the offseason, the team being penalized wouldn’t have to deal with such issue. Essentially, if you’re penalized by the luxury tax and is over the cap, you can only sign players whose Bird Rights you hold. I mean when you are resigning your own RFA's, the new contract is also going to be implemented only in the end of off-season, so you need to keep track of that yourself and deal with such issues... and I'm not sure if we still add also the salaries of 1st round draft picks only at the end of off-season or did it change this year. But that is something to track and plan for also yourself.
So, it's already kind of a minimum requirement of a GM to keep track of their own cap space in some kind of spreadsheet. If you are just blindly follow the roster page that is updated with delay, and keep signing FA's, you are going to have a bad time :D
That's your standard. I don't think everyone follows that. Sorry for the delays, I wouldn't mind not doing it if it bothers you so much. Maybe it would be best if you do it?
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Theodore Duncan
Portland Trail Blazers
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Post by Theodore Duncan on Jun 11, 2020 9:45:39 GMT -5
I mean when you are resigning your own RFA's, the new contract is also going to be implemented only in the end of off-season, so you need to keep track of that yourself and deal with such issues... and I'm not sure if we still add also the salaries of 1st round draft picks only at the end of off-season or did it change this year. But that is something to track and plan for also yourself.
So, it's already kind of a minimum requirement of a GM to keep track of their own cap space in some kind of spreadsheet. If you are just blindly follow the roster page that is updated with delay, and keep signing FA's, you are going to have a bad time :D
That's your standard. I don't think everyone follows that. Sorry for the delays, I wouldn't mind not doing it if it bothers you so much. Sorry, intention was not say that there is delay because of you or anyone implementing it. The RFA contracts are added with delay, because that is the rule
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Jun 11, 2020 9:56:09 GMT -5
That's your standard. I don't think everyone follows that. Sorry for the delays, I wouldn't mind not doing it if it bothers you so much. Sorry, intention was not say that there is delay because of you or anyone implementing it. The RFA contracts are added with delay, because that is the rule lol sorry I misread that haha Yes, players with BR, RFAs and those with cap hold, are signed after the offseaon. For the rookies, the salaries are posted once the real life NBA publicize theirs. I do think Allan, billy and the Player Committee monitor teams that are close to the hard cap whenever they try to sign players.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Jul 9, 2020 20:38:52 GMT -5
dynasty720.proboards.com/post/14
If the player re-signs for a starting salary that is lower than the cap hold technically wouldn't you be able to replace the cap hold with the new contract starting salary? I mean, leaving the cap hold instead isn't like officially signing the contract later for convenience in most cases?
Mostly approaching edge cases like when the cap hold puts you over the cap but if you replace it with a small contract then, you would effectively have cap space to use.
Isn't in real life the cap hold effectively replaced with the new contract when the player re-signs? Allan Houston
Edit: I tried looking for the last part in the cba faq but for some reasons the usual guru page is not working for me, lol.
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Jul 9, 2020 21:01:22 GMT -5
cbafaq is down, last I checked.
But you're right Kong. Irl, as soon as a contract is signed, the contract hits the books. If the contract is better for a team's cap space than the hold, they sign it early. If not, then they just come to an agreement and don't actually sign the contract until later. And that's how we do it here.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Jul 17, 2020 10:48:47 GMT -5
billy It is 3 months (real time) or 3 months (in game)? Asking because I have an open discussion about this. Always though it is real time because that's how we always did it plus if it was in game date each signing would be sealed with the in game date for clarity which doesn't happen. I mean, when a release happens we compare the date to the actual date of the signing or at least that's how I always did in the past.
With trades for off-season signings we use in game dates but that's different because there is a known in game date for all off-season players. Plus, it is more of an actual ruling to mimic real life.
I am mostly assuming things though which is why I am asking.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Jul 17, 2020 11:00:51 GMT -5
cbafaq is down, last I checked. But you're right Kong. Irl, as soon as a contract is signed, the contract hits the books. If the contract is better for a team's cap space than the hold, they sign it early. If not, then they just come to an agreement and don't actually sign the contract until later. And that's how we do it here.Didn't see this part. Thanks. Good to know.
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Jul 22, 2020 14:40:24 GMT -5
cbafaq is down, last I checked. Fun fact I realized about the other day. If you google 'nba cba coon' it will link to cbafaq.com/ and when you click on it, browser will display a 'Not found' error.
But if you enter directly with a question link it will actually work, lololol.
That also leads to a note for billy:
But I am pretty sure it is Question 23 now:
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Allan Houston
New York Knicks
Deputy Commissioner
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Post by Allan Houston on Jul 22, 2020 22:36:44 GMT -5
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Aug 8, 2020 15:54:27 GMT -5
So we added that a year ago but I want to know if we are allowed to ask a player to void the NTC completely for a trade to happen as in a team only liking it without the clause.
Why would a player do this? Well, if he is a veteran playing for a losing team I think maybe he would accept to remove the NTC if that means moving to a better team.
Not sure if it is technically possible but if there was an understanding between the parties I assume the player could just accept not to use it in future trades.
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Post by Steve Kerr on Sept 10, 2020 11:11:31 GMT -5
OK - A few questions: I have set my depth chart - hopefully I have done this right. Also where do I get access to player values and positions. Also access to the simulation platform, and finally can I amnesty Willy Cauley-Stein at the end of the season as a new GM or would I have to do it now. Sorry for being a bit ignorant here, but quite a lot to take in on the first day.
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Shaq O'Neal
LA Clippers
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Post by Shaq O'Neal on Sept 10, 2020 11:26:11 GMT -5
OK - A few questions: I have set my depth chart - hopefully I have done this right. Also where do I get access to player values and positions. Also access to the simulation platform, and finally can I amnesty Willy Cauley-Stein at the end of the season as a new GM or would I have to do it now. Sorry for being a bit ignorant here, but quite a lot to take in on the first day. Our simulation engine is Basketball GM basketballgm.com dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/7271/season-6-league-filesClick on the drive link in the above link^.There you will find our league files.Download it. After that go to basketballgm.com.Create a new league with custom rosters and upload the above mentioned league file.There you can view the standings and player ratings
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Yeezy
Dallas Mavericks
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Post by Yeezy on Sept 10, 2020 12:55:41 GMT -5
I've been in multiple salary leagues with Steve Kerr, if the trading moratorium can be lifted for him so he can make moves prior to him clinching, would be nice. I have no plans to trade with him fwiw but trading Stein would be nice.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Sept 10, 2020 13:49:35 GMT -5
I've been in multiple salary leagues with Steve Kerr, if the trading moratorium can be lifted for him so he can make moves prior to him clinching, would be nice. I have no plans to trade with him fwiw but trading Stein would be nice. I could just take a week off from simming :D Yeah? No? awww
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Jackie Kong
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Post by Jackie Kong on Sept 10, 2020 13:54:53 GMT -5
I will confess. Once I joined a league and did a very bad trade on the 2nd day. And I thought it was an awesome trade but people laughed at me.
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Post by Steve Kerr on Sept 11, 2020 11:17:55 GMT -5
Just want to make sure I am getting this right: 1) I can not make any trades ones a play-off spot has been obtained and in any event I can not make trades for 7 days after joining the league, so in all likelihood that is out of the question. 2) Can I sign minimum contracts in spite of the fact that I am over the cap limit with the understanding that these players are not eligible for the play-offs as they were signed subsequent to Mar 1st? 3) Can I waive and stretch contract at this point in time or does it have a drop dead date? - Thanks.
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Sept 11, 2020 20:01:11 GMT -5
Just want to make sure I am getting this right: 1) I can not make any trades ones a play-off spot has been obtained and in any event I can not make trades for 7 days after joining the league, so in all likelihood that is out of the question. 2) Can I sign minimum contracts in spite of the fact that I am over the cap limit with the understanding that these players are not eligible for the play-offs as they were signed subsequent to Mar 1st? 3) Can I waive and stretch contract at this point in time or does it have a drop dead date? - Thanks. yes, you got them all right.
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jameskay
Denver Nuggets
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Post by jameskay on Sept 11, 2020 21:24:04 GMT -5
Just want to make sure I am getting this right: 1) I can not make any trades ones a play-off spot has been obtained and in any event I can not make trades for 7 days after joining the league, so in all likelihood that is out of the question. 2) Can I sign minimum contracts in spite of the fact that I am over the cap limit with the understanding that these players are not eligible for the play-offs as they were signed subsequent to Mar 1st? 3) Can I waive and stretch contract at this point in time or does it have a drop dead date? - Thanks. yes, you got them all right. How long has GSW gone without a GM? Wouldn’t it be more valuable to the league to allow the new GM to make some trades to benefit his team rather than let a team stagnate simply because no one was steering the ship? The trades could be subject to a heightened scrutiny by the TC, because it’s a new GM.
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Sept 11, 2020 22:31:06 GMT -5
yes, you got them all right. How long has GSW gone without a GM? Wouldn’t it be more valuable to the league to allow the new GM to make some trades to benefit his team rather than let a team stagnate simply because no one was steering the ship? The trades could be subject to a heightened scrutiny by the TC, because it’s a new GM. the last time they had a GM was July 2020. However, since Odin took over in November 2019, he didn’t do any move. Fair point, sadly, I’m not the one who makes the rules. billy you’re up
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Post by Steve Kerr on Sept 12, 2020 5:37:06 GMT -5
Just for the record I am fine with waiting until the 7 days are up and doing Qed transactions during the play offs, it gives me some time to figure all this out.
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billy
Miami Heat
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Post by billy on Sept 12, 2020 8:06:35 GMT -5
Just for the record I am fine with waiting until the 7 days are up and doing Qed transactions during the play offs, it gives me some time to figure all this out. This is exactly what I was coming here to say. Honestly, any move you'd make in haste right now would probably not help you much this year anyway. You have a good team and this is a good shot to go deep into the playoffs. You can make as many queued moves as you want even during the playoffs to set you up for the offseason and future seasons. Take this week to work out good deals with people. I'm sure you've received plenty of offers -- a lot of GMs will just take the best ones they get. ALL of the offers you have gotten are probably incredibly bad for you. People don't make good offers. The best way to navigate the league is take one of the offers you've gotten that seems interesting, and then take that package you are being asked to give them, and offer that to a bunch of other GMs that didn't message you yet, and I bet 3-4 of them would give you way more for the same stuff. Good luck.
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Post by Steve Kerr on Sept 13, 2020 6:37:44 GMT -5
Yet another question: When is or is their a deadline for signing FAs for example - at the time you have clinched a play-off spot like trading or at the beginning of the playoffs and for non playoff teams is the a deadline at all - thanks.
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Post by Stuff The Magic Dragon on Sept 13, 2020 8:38:15 GMT -5
Yet another question: When is or is their a deadline for signing FAs for example - at the time you have clinched a play-off spot like trading or at the beginning of the playoffs and for non playoff teams is the a deadline at all - thanks. for free agent signings, there is no deadline during the season. However, anybody signed after Day 75 is no longer eligible to play for your team.
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