TOR - BOS

[Brian Scalabrine]

Toronto sends: 


Khris Middleton $18,000,000
Myles Turner     $27,285,000 $27,285,000 $25,238,625 $23,192,250
Lou Williams     $16,125,000 $17,250,000

Total salary out: 61,410,000


Boston sends: 

UTA 2020 1st 

Al Horford         $34,545,000 $36,660,000
Rui Hachimura   $3,831,840  $4,023,600   $4,215,120  $5,808,435  $7,992,407
Dillon Brooks     $1,615,000  $8,000,000   $8,600,000  $9,200,000   $9,800,000  $10,400,000
Bobby Portis      $9,276,900  $10,368,300  $11,459,700  $12,551,100
Cody Zeller        $7,000,000  $7,000,000
Brandon Knight  $5,499,991  $5,806,533

Total salary out:  61,738,731

[Brian Scalabrine]

I accept. Will waive Pat McCaw and Yante Maten conditionally to complete this deal.

Middleton is a flight risk, and with the emergence of Michael Porter Jr irl, I'm feeling a lot more comfortable moving off him, even though he's an amazing player.

Ultimately, I'm deciding to bolster my young, cost controlled core here. I like Rui a lot. He's got a shit ton of potential, and I'm excited to be able to root for him, and to reunite him with former Zag teammate Clarke. Brooks is a bit of a chucker, but a solid piece, and a canadian. Zeller is solid. Horford is a lot of money, but a good player, and expires after next year. I'll miss Turner but he's underrated by the sim, and a bit overpaid, and not entirely necessary since Capela fits a similar role.

I'm looking at a young core that's very strong, and a LOT of money after next season for a free agency push before I extend my young guys. That's the move for me, spend a bit more time building the core, and have my salary planned out to be very aggressive in the FA market in a single year. With internal development and a bit of FA luck, that can be a legit recipe for a dynasty.

SGA, MPJ, Clarke, Rui, Capela, Lauri, and another lottery prospect. Let's fucking go.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Red Auerbach

[Red Auerbach]

Boston accepts.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Yeezy
Stuff The Magic Dragon
Ed Cooley
Nino Brown
Theodore Duncan
Logan Hough

[Paul Pierce]

finally! just wanted to say i hate this ;)

[Scott Pilgrim]

seems good, not franchise ruining. Trade commission should accept this

[Brian Scalabrine]

Aug 12, 2020 22:14:20 GMT -5 Paul Pierce said:

finally! just wanted to say i hate this ;)

Don't hate me cause you ain't me

[Yeezy]

yo i need to know what the odds are that Middleton resigns bc Boston not even in the playoff race lol and how much he can even offer?

let's say he does stay, you're giving up Rui and a lottery pick for a lineup of Jrue, Middleton, LMA, Myles Turner, Lou Williams.

Is trotting out that line up for the 20-21 season worth giving up Rui and a lottery pick? Maybe it is, wanna hear other opinions

[Scott Pilgrim]

Aug 12, 2020 22:37:43 GMT -5 Scott Pilgrim said:

seems good, not franchise ruining. Trade commission should accept this

lmao didnt see the utah pick going torontos way, now i dont know haha

[Ed Cooley]

Yeah aren’t teams supposed to explain why they accept a trade? How are we supposed to accept this deal when we don’t know why Boston is giving up a lottery pick and their former first round pick?

[Steve Jobs]

Aug 12, 2020 22:37:43 GMT -5 Scott Pilgrim said:

seems good, not franchise ruining. Trade commission should accept this

You clearly underestimate their ability to mis-identify “franchise ruining”.

[Steve Jobs]

Aug 13, 2020 7:50:15 GMT -5 Ed Cooley said:

Yeah aren’t teams supposed to explain why they accept a trade? How are we supposed to accept this deal when we don’t know why Boston is giving up a lottery pick and their former first round pick?

No. Teams making a trade are not required to post reasoning. It is 100% a courtesy to the TC / anyone paying attention if they choose to do so in efforts to get the trade accepted.

Not trying to be a dick, but if you don’t know the rules you need to read them thoroughly.

[Theodore Duncan]

Lol, shut up Steve.
You say you don't want to be dick but then make really condescending comment about the rules.

Yes, it's not required to give reasoning, but it's perfectly fine for TC to ask for. It has been an unwritten rule.
If then one of the GM's doesn't want to give the reason that's perfectly fine, as it's not mandatory. But then it's also perfectly fine for TC member to reject on that basis, if they don't get why the trade makes sense for the team

[Theodore Duncan]

Aug 13, 2020 10:41:27 GMT -5 Steve Jobs said:

Aug 12, 2020 22:37:43 GMT -5 Scott Pilgrim said:

seems good, not franchise ruining. Trade commission should accept this

You clearly underestimate their ability to mid-identify “franchise ruining”.

I love when Steve gets passive aggressive. One of the best I have ever seen to do so

[Steve Jobs]

Aug 13, 2020 11:45:20 GMT -5 Theodore Duncan said:

Lol, shut up Steve.
You say you don't want to be dick but then make really condescending comment about the rules.

Yes, it's not required to give reasoning, but it's perfectly fine for TC to ask for. It has been an unwritten rule.
If then one of the GM's doesn't want to give the reason that's perfectly fine, as it's not mandatory. But then it's also perfectly fine for TC member to reject on that basis, if they don't get why the trade makes sense for the team

He *is* perfectly within his rights to ask for reasoning. He’s also perfectly within his rights to reject with/without reasoning.

But that’s not what happened. He asked “aren’t teams supposed to explain why they accept a trade?” From there I’d say it’s perfectly reasonable to point out that they are, in fact, not required to do so. And considering the job of TC is responsible for about half of everything interesting that happens in this league during the season, a TC member having not taken the time to read the rules before starting to do the job should be frustrating for everyone, not just me.

[Red Auerbach]

I guess it is franchise ruining.

[Red Auerbach]

2 TCs believe so.

[Theodore Duncan]

I don't think anyone has actually voted yet, it's just been discussed

[Yeezy]

Yeah I hadn't decided yet Red, if you truly believe that you can resign Middleton and you have a chance to make some noise next year with that lineup, make the case.

If there's no reason that you made this trade other than to just make a trade then this is in the franchise ruining vein of trades. That the old TC would have vetoed if this was DAL - BOS

[Jackie Kong]

I needed to make some research for this post so hear me out because I might have found a bug, lol.

Found something important that might have been overlooked in the trade between Celtics and Rockets. The last one with Celtics moving back for Holiday. And in this one.

Celtics have the 3rd worst record right now (15-48) between Hornets (13-50) and Pacers/Heat (17-46).

Blazers own the Celtics pick for this season as top 3 protected (Decreasing conveyance). So if Celtics end up getting the 3rd pick or best they end up keeping their pick for this season with pick going to Blazers as top 8 protected for next season.

For that reason they probably do not or should not want to move over Pacers or Heat.

So, that's 1 thing. 2nd, I made some digging because if picks are as shown in the Draft Rights page then, Bos 2022 1st to Clippers is illegal. But that really depends on a doubt I have.

dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/2358/boston-washington - Celtics originally traded the 2020 1st in 2016 to Wizards with it being 'top 3 protected'. Now I might be missing something but 'top 3 protected' straight up means 'top 3 protected with no conveyance' as in Wizards not getting a pick if Celtics get the top 3 pick.

So, if the pick is top 3 protected no conveyance then draft rights page should be updated. Although that pick was traded a couple of times so I am not sure if it was upgraded to 'decreasing conveyance' at one point. I will see if I can do a full track of that pick.

but anyway, Celtics 2022 1st was traded to Clippers 3 years after - dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/6389/boston-celtics-los-angeles-clippers

with that last trade being valid only if the pick had no conveyance.

That's because if the pick has decreasing conveyance like Draft Rights page shows then, the 2020 1st could be top 8 protected in 2021 and Lottery protected in 2022 (entering into conflict with the Clippers pick).

--------------------------------

Edit: dynasty720.proboards.com/post/14947 - As billy points out in the Celtics traded that moved the 2020 1st, the 2020 1st was in in fact with no conveyance.

Jul 12, 2016 9:07:58 GMT -5 billy said:

But if he were to protect the pick, and it ends up top 3 and washington doesnt get it -- what happens? do we take the 2018 LAC 1st from LA?!

dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/2937/toronto-washington - That's the following trade when the pick was moved from Wizards to Raptors.

And Brian confirmed to Billy that pick is top 3 protected - no conveyance: dynasty720.proboards.com/post/17938

And

dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/2946/portland-toronto - That's the last trade that got the Celtics 2020 1st to Blazers and in there it also says top 3 protected as in 'top 3 protected with no conveyance'. Plus, that trade makes a lot more sense if you consider that 1st as without conveyance.

[Red Auerbach]

If it would have been vetoed if it was going to Dallas.
Guess we shouldn’t play favorites.

[Jackie Kong]

So, to sum it up (after the edited part in the previous post),

Draft Rights should show Bos 2020 1st as top 3 protected with no conveyance (no arrow - now it has one going down as in decreasing conveyance).

And if Celtics get a top 3 pick then they get to keep their pick and nothing else happens!

Hence this trade is even worse than you though and dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/7614/boston-houston could have been a mistake too.

But if Celtics get to keep their pick as top 3 and with the Jazz pick and Hachimura, they have a nice future ahead. If somehow they could reach Hornets in the 18 games that are left that would actually be ideal for them.

[billy]

At that point the rule only had decreasing conveyance.

Options of 'increasing' and 'not at all' were added here:

Aug 26, 2016 8:52:40 GMT -5 billy said:

Conveyance updated to be either increasing, decreasing, or not at all (previously only decreasing).

[Jackie Kong]

Aug 13, 2020 17:33:15 GMT -5 billy said:

At that point the rule only had decreasing conveyance.

well, if the pick has decreasing conveyance, then,

1) Celtics pick would become top 8 protected next season if they can get a top 3 pick which is not as good as no conveyance but still good for them.

and

2) dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/6389/boston-celtics-los-angeles-clippers was invalid although I don't think you can do much about it after so long (lololol) other than hope that the 2 picks don't collide.

[Yeezy]

seems like Red doesn't like this trade anymore, i will reject.

[billy]

Aug 13, 2020 17:38:19 GMT -5 Jackie Kong said:

Aug 13, 2020 17:33:15 GMT -5 billy said:

At that point the rule only had decreasing conveyance.

well, if the pick has decreasing conveyance, then,

1) Celtics pick would become top 8 protected next season if they can get a top 3 pick which is not as good as no conveyance but still good for them.

and

2) dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/6389/boston-celtics-los-angeles-clippers was invalid although I don't think you can do much about it after so long (lololol) other than hope that the 2 picks don't collide.

Conveyance only goes for 1 year.

[Jackie Kong]

Aug 13, 2020 17:39:53 GMT -5 billy said:

Conveyance only goes for 1 year.

But I mean, if Celtics get a top 3 pick then, the pick will become in a 2021 1st (Top 8 protected - decreasing conveyance). And in that scenario, if they later on get a top 8 pick in 2021, the pick will become into a 2022 1st (Lottery protected - decreasing conveyance) except 2022 1st already belongs to Clippers.

dynasty720.proboards.com/thread/1599/draft-pick-protections

Example of Decreasing Conveyance:
If the Lakers trade their 2016 Draft Pick as Top 8 protected with decreasing conveyance to Chicago, then they fail hard enough to keep their pick, their 2017 draft pick will then be offered to Chicago as Lottery Protected.

Denoted on Draft Rights Chart as ↓

And rules do mention the conveyance going for 1 year but it also talks about teams swapping one pick for another in the case of the conveyance taking place so from my understand of the rule, the conveyance goes away but a new one is created for the new pick offered. Hence, it recycles.

By the way, amazing catch with the protection rule change. 1st trade was in July 2016 and the change was in August 2016 so it absolutely applies.

[billy]

No, it doesn't do that. It only conveys for one year. I even bolded it.

[Jackie Kong]

Aug 13, 2020 17:56:53 GMT -5 billy said:

No, it doesn't do that. It only conveys for one year. I even bolded it.

So, you are saying that if Celtics finish top 3 then the pick becomes top 8 next season with no conveyance, right? As in happening or not happening with Blazers getting no compensation if Celtics get a top 3 pick now and a top 8 pick next year.